Zappa - what a tight music arranger

[jancivil]

I just don't think much of coming into a thread where people would like to celebrate something to go on and on with 'It doesn't do anything for me' in the first place, then people balk and you repeatedly strive to make that seem legit. I actually hate a lot of music people like. My worst move was the 'This 16-year old has something really special' thread and it was the same crap all EDM producers do, and I went off a bit. But even that is not a real good look on social media. I hope you can "handle" that.

Zappa had a very complex understanding of arrangement and counterpoint.

In his letter to Varèse, I believe he was 15, he referred to the atonal counterpoint of Ruth Crawford (Seeger) as a sort of launch point for his ideas. It was a great pretentious teenage kind of move, but I'm still impressed by the audacity of that. The only thing like that I'd heard at that age was Zappa in 200 Motels.

[aMUSEd]

It's posed as a topic for discussion, discussion is a 2 way process, people can disagree as well as agree

[jancivil]

I'm not the one dismissing other's opinions by attributing them to having closed minds or preconceived ideas etc (ie anything other than having a valid POV

What you actually said was:

I find it very unfair (and closed minded) when people try to find excuses for dismissing the validity of opinions they can't handle

Quite clearly you're doing exactly that, there.

discussion is a 2 way process, people can disagree as well as agree

No shit? Wow, but is that patronizing. This was me disagreeing, "handle" it.

[ghettosynth]

It's posed as a topic for discussion, discussion is a 2 way process, people can disagree as well as agree

+1

[aMUSEd]

I'm not the one dismissing other's opinions by attributing them to having closed minds or preconceived ideas etc (ie anything other than having a valid POV

What you actually said was:

I find it very unfair (and closed minded) when people try to find excuses for dismissing the validity of opinions they can't handle

Quite clearly you're doing exactly that, there.

discussion is a 2 way process, people can disagree as well as agree

No shit? Wow, but is that patronizing. This was me disagreeing, "handle" it.

I'm not the one who seem to have a problem with it, to the point of now actually suggesting that this thread just be about people 'celebrating' Zappa.

[jancivil]

I'm probably not the only one here to whom Zappa is interesting, and you're not.

[jancivil]

I'm not the one who seem to have a problem with it, to the point of now actually suggesting that this thread just be about people 'celebrating' Zappa.

You appear to be having a problem with my opinion. "The topic title is Zappa - what a tight music arranger."
I observed that fact. You are putting words in my mouth just to be disagreeable. I guess it's time to ignore you.
I don't think being negative about it is very good. Can you handle that?

[jancivil]

[ghettosynth]

[This was me disagreeing, "handle" it.

This isn't your forum so whether you disagree on who posts what is "of no moment" to anyone here.

Further, with respect to aMUSED post, nobody has questioned the character or the musicianship of anyone who likes Zappa, and that's what "not being able to handle an opinion" means.


Anyway, here's an opinion, not mine, I wasn't there, so take any disagreement up with Mr. Himes.

Frank Zappa may be too smart for his own good. Though he's a brilliant guitarist, a witty lyricist and a sophisticated composer, he has created little music that's deep or lasting. Last night at Merriweather Post Pavilion, he was content to play jazz-rock fusion and rock-opera parodies.

Zappa's bored, cynical mutter obscured many of the lyrics; those that survived relied on the cheapest form of humor: mockery. Leading a solid but unexceptional septet, the 43-year-old Baltimore native played a 70-minute medley, mostly from his later solo albums, plus two 15-minute medleys as encores. Zappa would slip dissonant piano into a funk formula, savage satire into a do-wop formula and put odd rhythmic figures and modulations into a rock formula, but the formulas themselves dominated too much.

Zappa once titled one of his instrumental albums "Shut Up 'n Play Yer Guitar." The show enjoyed its best moments when he followed his own advice. Each guitar solo was a marvel of dirty tones, fluid runs and unexpected sidesteps. More important, he played the guitar as if it meant something more than a clever diversion. -- Geoffrey Himes Frank Zappa: Bored and Cynical

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/ ... 2f269eea9/

[Harry_HH]

I'm probably not the only one here to whom Zappa is interesting, and you're not.

Great bit. Almost like "Edgard Varèse's Amériques 60 years later". Who else would have done this kind of stuff if not Zappa?
BTW, for me Zappa's music has always been one of those you need to take in small portions, the overdose can cause sevier damages. But you absolutely need one time to time - same concerns e.g. Stravinsky, Stockhausen, Schönberg, those are not necessarely for a long car trip or background music for the Sunday morning breakfast after a long night.

[rp314]

[jancivil]

TIGHT

[rp314]

In 1968 the Mothers recorded this version of King Kong for the BBC that showed Frank's talents at arranging a work containing Free Jazz/improvisation, written/well-rehearsed sections, as well as the usual bits of humor/silliness.

[incubus]

I like that last post.

[jancivil]