Is anyone feeling Punk-Hop?

[kilroy]

We have so much more in common than the things that separate us.

*sigh*

Aye...quite facinating that we should be so quickly divided by our differences, yet not so easily bound by our common similarities.

[spaceman]

We have so much more in common than the things that separate us.

*sigh*

Aye...quite facinating that we should be so quickly divided by our differences, yet not so easily bound by our common similarities.

probably because it's more boring
it's well known people like arguments and usually look for them as well

[Lady J]

Pardon me if this is common knowledge but I kinda wonder now that so much of what I assume to be common knowledge isn't....but: Rock n Roll came from the Blues and actually has a more direct link to it and thus Africa, than Hip Hop..

Slave Songs --> Negro Spirituals ---> Blues -----> Rock (end)


Griot Tradition + tribal or syncopated rhyrms ---> Slave storytelling and Negro Spirtuals --> Blues ---> Rock/Ska.toasting --->Disco/Funk ---> German Electronic music ---> US Electro-funk and Go Go ---> Hip hop (end)


The whole reason Rock shocked parents in the 50s and became a source of rebellion in the 60s was that it was 'too black', sexual, vulgar, visceral, hedonistic and tribal, for the previous generation. Its funny how things go full circle.

Depends what they sampled really. I wouldnt say it was strictly a black/blues thing myself.

not now perhaps ...

... but that is what is was trying to say (or was that in the other thread ??? ) ... seperate out what things ARE from what they CAME FROM ...

... origins of hip-hop evolution (in cultural terms) ultimately come from slave culture (plus some other stuff thrown into the mix) even if nowadays it IS a purely western consumer-driven commodity-obsessed thing ...

slainte rob

[no_barcode]

Pardon me if this is common knowledge but I kinda wonder now that so much of what I assume to be common knowledge isn't....but: Rock n Roll came from the Blues and actually has a more direct link to it and thus Africa, than Hip Hop..

Slave Songs --> Negro Spirituals ---> Blues -----> Rock (end)


Griot Tradition + tribal or syncopated rhyrms ---> Slave storytelling and Negro Spirtuals --> Blues ---> Rock/Ska.toasting --->Disco/Funk ---> German Electronic music ---> US Electro-funk and Go Go ---> Hip hop (end)


The whole reason Rock shocked parents in the 50s and became a source of rebellion in the 60s was that it was 'too black', tribal, whatever for the previous generation. Its funny how things go full circle.

Depends what they sampled really. I wouldnt say it was strictly a black/blues thing myself.

not now perhaps ...

... but that is what is was trying to say (or was that in the other thread ??? ) ... seperate out what things ARE from what they CAME FROM ...

... origins of hip-hop evolution (in cultural terms) ultimately come from slave culture (plus some other stuff thrown into the mix) even if nowadays it IS a purely western consumer-driven commodity-obsessed thing ...

slainte rob

Basically, if it wasn't for black people all electronic music would sound like Kraftwerk and "phat beats" would be an insult. Why don't you just tell like it is and let everyone get over it.

[Lady J]

Basically, if it wasn't for black people all electronic music would sound like Kraftwerk and "phat beats" would be an insult. Why don't you just tell like it is and let everyone get over it.

Um because a) we do not know that would be entirely true it's very possible someone would have discovered using the 808 kick and syncopation.

and b) this is a thread about rock, specifically punk-hop which is a hybrid of punk and hip hop. it is more rocking than hip hop though.

[no_barcode]

Basically, if it wasn't for black people all electronic music would sound like Kraftwerk and "phat beats" would be an insult. Why don't you just tell like it is and let everyone get over it.

Um because a) we do not know that would be entirely true it's very possible someone would have discovered using the 808 kick and syncopation.

and b) this is a thread about rock, specifically punk-hop which is a hybrid of punk and hip hop. it is more rocking than hip hop though.

Fine, fine. But if this is *specifically about "punk-hop, or tip-top, or flip-flop, or whatever... why then, did you name every conceivable form of modern music from the last 4 decades, and then link it all back to slave music in your previous post? I don't really care. I just like to start trouble while I wait for Dave to make me a new toy. I love GMedia.

Pardon me if this is common knowledge but I kinda wonder now that so much of what I assume to be common knowledge isn't....but: Rock n Roll came from the Blues and actually has a more direct link to it and thus Africa, than Hip Hop..

Slave Songs --> Negro Spirituals ---> Blues -----> Rock (end)


Griot Tradition + tribal or syncopated rhyrms ---> Slave storytelling and Negro Spirtuals --> Blues ---> Rock/Ska.toasting --->Disco/Funk ---> German Electronic music ---> US Electro-funk and Go Go ---> Hip hop (end)

[Lunch Money]

spaceman, I agree with what you're getting at-- the 12-note chromatic scale is Western by its very nature. Without getting into African roots, etc., I still think it's a discredit to think that other cultures weren't making sophisticated music prior to Europe.

It's well known that both India and China were very sophisticated cultures long before Europeans figured out there was more to life than banging metal into swords and having tribal warfare.

That's all I'm saying. I'm not claiming it ties to the punk-hop argument, necessarily-- in fact, I've quite lost the direction of what I was getting at other than to refute your claim. As you say, it's sometimes a part of our natures to look for arguments. <chuckle>

Cheers,
Greg

[Equilibrium]

Genre's really don't matter one lil' bit! It is so funny how Dnb Bass, which mostly sounds the same gets broken down into even more genres. now punk hop, what a joke...

Blues
Gospel
Soul
Dance
Rock
Punk
Orchestral
Hip Hop
All world styles
Jazz

I'm sure I missed a few but, that's all there is in my mind. Where's that Divine Comedy CD.

Major record companies would be so proud of themselves if they saw this thread

[Lunatique]

Doesn't Mindless Self Indulgence count as Punk-Hop?

[nuffink]

Doesn't Mindless Self Indulgence count as Punk-Hop?

Ah, so it's a descendant of pwog too.

[spaceman]

spaceman, I agree with what you're getting at-- the 12-note chromatic scale is Western by its very nature. Without getting into African roots, etc., I still think it's a discredit to think that other cultures weren't making sophisticated music prior to Europe.

It's well known that both India and China were very sophisticated cultures long before Europeans figured out there was more to life than banging metal into swords and having tribal warfare.

That's all I'm saying. I'm not claiming it ties to the punk-hop argument, necessarily-- in fact, I've quite lost the direction of what I was getting at other than to refute your claim. As you say, it's sometimes a part of our natures to look for arguments. <chuckle>

Cheers,
Greg

well, I have to admit I could have added some extra information to my previous posts.. I thought the whole thread was about mainstream music, esp. hip-hop and it's newer incarnations. My point was just that in my opinion all music you hear in the charts these days all have their roots (or should I say, the most part of it) in western music.. there were a lot of African/etc influences along the way but what the *public* wants these days -or what the record companies want to give us- is completely westernised. Most black artist -whatever they claim- don't have any bond whatsoever with their African roots, they just keep wanking on about it because it gives them an identity/it sounds better/it gives them more credibility.. but for f**ks sake, most black artists are as white as snow, they're whiter than white, complete with the 100% materialistic attitude. If you want to hear real black music, the charts is not the place to look for it, so it's not mainstream

that's what this bloody stinking thread was about in the first place but people get so high on their horses as soon as you mention western/black/whatever that the discussion goes all over the place

and some people here seem to think that if a song has a beat, it's African influenced, if it has a sitar it's Asian influenced.. well sorry but the western world knows what a f**king beat is too.. and some instruments don't make a genre.. you can play classical with electric guitars and blues on a flute

[whyterabbyt]

Lady J quoth


Griot Tradition + tribal or syncopated rhyrms ---> Slave storytelling and Negro Spirtuals --> Blues ---> Rock/Ska.toasting --->Disco/Funk ---> German Electronic music ---> US Electro-funk and Go Go ---> Hip hop (end)

Positing a completely direct lineage of this kind is innacurate, and nothing more than a fudge to justify your dubious claims. Lets try something that actually reflects the real world complexity of your over-simplified little analysis there...

(Strand 1) Griot Tradition + tribal or syncopated rhyrms (+ European religious music ) ---> Slave storytelling and Negro Spirtuals--> Blues

(Strand 2) European folk music ---> American settler folk music + Blues ---> Rock

(Strand 3) West African kaiso --> calypso (+ Jazz + American and European RnB) --> Ska --> Reggae --> Dub and Rapping/Toasting

(Strand 4) European 'academic' music --> European and American psychedelic rock --> German Electronic music

(strand 5) Jazz+Rock+Blues ---> Funk --> Disco -->(+German electronic) US Electro-funk and Go Go ---> (+Reggaeish Toasting) ---> Hip hop

And even thats probably a gross oversimplification. But at least its not as simplistically linear as Lady J's version. If you're gonna make claims, LJ, then try and do a bit better with your backup, because relying on oversimplification and generalisation like that just makes you look foolish.

[Kriminal]

Isnt 'Punk-Hop' just another made up (by record companies) genre to sell more records?

[Equilibrium]

Isnt 'Punk-Hop' just another made up (by record companies) genre to sell more records?

A lot of the times it's the music makers that do the whole genre thing isn't it? You can get a tight group of no tallents to start a musical style and control it.

Music is music, right?

[whyterabbyt]

I'd point the finger of blame for genres at music journalists meself.