Musicians and GIGANTIC egos

[Hink]

Fame is a musicians worst enemy, in that it's like a drug.. desirable when you don't know it well, but eventually, unless you're very strong, it will destroy you.

I tend to agree that the "famous musician" lifestyle mostly ends up isolating an artist from the very experiences that created the music in the first place. Doesn't happen to everyone, but it seems to have eventually brought almost everyone down. Even a relatively popular local band can suffer being swallowed by the whole "rock and roll lifestyle" and ending up fading away on the hotel circuit..sigh.

I'm not famous, and I'm fortunate in that I'm happy in my tiny little niche.. I don't have the drive to write "popular" tunes or tap into whatever the current zeitgeist is. But then.. I'm horrible at compromising and I'm terminally stubborn, so I'd never make it in the music biz at large anyway. So take all this as "just what I've observed"

so you're like me? you play music for you first.

[SuitcaseOfLizards]

so you're like me? you play music for you first.

Yep, that's me! I write my music, like my poetry, to express something I feel/have felt. And since I tend to write when I feel depressed and crappy.. well, I s'pose it might be popular amongst gothy types.

I've always preferred the tunes from people that write for themselves first, but maybe that's just me. It seems more honest somehow, I know it's hard to explain what I mean by that, just the whole vibe. Maybe I just need to listen to more stuff, I dunno. Contrived lyrics drive me nuts!

[kilroy]

Fame is a musicians worst enemy, in that it's like a drug.. desirable when you don't know it well, but eventually, unless you're very strong, it will destroy you.

Looked at the another way, why not see it as a great opportunity for bettering oneself. Novel idea?

Fame can be a useful vehicle, a powerful tool if you will. Properly wielded in the right hands it doesn't have to devour you, but rather it can be used to revolutionize, polarize and set great things in motion.

I think Martin Luther King was a famous man...but his fame was not what killed him. Hitler was famous...but that's not what killed him either.

Jimmy Hendrix...died of fame?

Janis Joplin...died of fame?

Jim Morrison...died of fame?



Musicians worst enemy...the thing between his ears.
Use it well and it will serve you well.





Aren't choices lovely things?

[SuitcaseOfLizards]

Fame is a musicians worst enemy, in that it's like a drug.. desirable when you don't know it well, but eventually, unless you're very strong, it will destroy you.

Looked at the another way, why not see it as a great opportunity for bettering oneself. Novel idea?

Fame can be a useful vehicle, a powerful tool if you will. Properly wielded in the right hands it doesn't have to devour you, but rather it can be used to revolutionize, polarize and set great things in motion.

I think Martin Luther King was a famous man...but his fame was not what killed him. Hitler was famous...but that's not what killed him either.

Jimmy Hendrix...died of fame?

Janis Joplin...died of fame?

Jim Morrison...died of fame?

Musicians worst enemy...the thing between his ears.
Use it well and it will serve you well.

Aren't choices lovely things?

Fame was a direct contributor to most of these things. Unknowns don't have an elevated chance of assasination or "regime change". People not exposed to the drugs-and-drinking rock and roll lifestyle don't have a highly elevated chance to die of an O.D.

Not saying it wouldn't happen in the absence of fame, but I'd imagine the chances would be slimmer.

And yeah, thinking helps. But that lovely glitter of money, popularity, and an endless rush tend to cause shutdown of higher mental skills even in the most resistant.

[Hink]

no they died from foolish behavior that fame glorified. If you want to say a musician died of Fame I would say SRV, died in a helicopter crash leaving a show. If not for fame he would not of been there. Hendrix, Morrison and Janis Joplin could of just as easy been homeless drug addicts and suffered the same fate.

[Lunch Money]

Could have been...

But you're missing the point. Sure, lots of "normal people" die of Drug overdoses every day. But you can't deny the possibility that some rock artists (possibly the ones you mentioned, possibly not) don't get into the drugs on such a grand scale until fortune and fame and the friends/lifestyle that come with it bring the resources to allow them to indulge so excessively.

SRV didn't die of fame. He died from an accident. The fame was a coincidence...!! It could be argued more successfully that the other people died from fame, even though I'm not saying for sure that they did. I'm just saying that the SRV comparison doesn't 'follow'.

Forget about the musicians for a second-- what about Hitler and Martin Luther King? Surely it is possible to directly relate their fame to their deaths...!

The point isn't that fame is an absolute killer OR an absolute killer of creativity. But the environment that fame creates is inescapable without great effort. Once that environment is in place, it THEN takes a strong mind to make conscious decisions to stay healthy. The odds begin to stack up, which is why I think it's an exception to see hugely famous people maintain a) a normal and healthy mind [aside: please no "what IS a healthy mind?" debates to detract from the point. It would bore me to tears!] and b) passion and creativity that keep them able to relate to their fans and continue to make meaningful music.

People can be positive and creative DESPITE fame and fortune, like the members of U2. But I think it's a rare and wonderful thing.

Greg

[Hink]

Could have been...

But you're missing the point. Sure, lots of "normal people" die of Drug overdoses every day. But you can't deny the possibility that some rock artists (possibly the ones you mentioned, possibly not) don't get into the drugs on such a grand scale until fortune and fame and the friends/lifestyle that come with it bring the resources to allow them to indulge so excessively.



Greg

I here what you're saying, but usually it doesn't go fame to drug abuse, it's the other way around. I know quite well. We were a local band, and a front for a cocaine ring. Easily I did 1k worth a week (of course for me it was free) in the mid to late 80's, no fame...but we sure lived the life style. I count my blessings everyday that I didn't die, and I know my heart condition was due to my total lack of logic and getting hooked on such a viscous drug...most artists are addicts long before we know who they are. The extra money and connections put them in a place to be more then excessive...just my opinion. But I think an addictive personality is gonna come out either way...

[kilroy]

Forget about the musicians for a second-- what about Hitler and Martin Luther King? Surely it is possible to directly relate their fame to their deaths...!

Right..lets forget about fame for a second. Would there really have been any difference in the thinking that killed these men in it's absense?

[Hink]

Forget about the musicians for a second-- what about Hitler and Martin Luther King? Surely it is possible to directly relate their fame to their deaths...!

Right..lets forget about fame for a second. Would there really have been any difference in the thinking that killed these men in it's absense?

MLK yes it's possible, but correct me if I'm wrong but didn't hitler kill himself...perhaps if not for him being imfamous (he wasn't famous, he was imfamous) he would of offed himself out of utter frustration...

Of course the argument can be made that it has nothing to do with where you are or what method you meet your demise by. But when it's your turn that's it and the situation determines the method. Like SRV, perhaps if he were an unknown at that exact moment he would of been killed by a drunk driver...

[Hink]

this is post 667, isn't it odd that post 666 for me was about death

[Lunch Money]

I think you're taking a completely valid point, and by limiting it to a certain mindset, you're ignoring the big picture.

No worries, though, in the meantime your points were interesting and valid despite having a fairly narrow scope.

Greg

[ouroboros]

But enough about musicians,
Let's talk about me.

[kilroy]

I think you're taking a completely valid point, and by limiting it to a certain mindset, you're ignoring the big picture.

No worries, though, in the meantime your points were interesting and valid despite having a fairly narrow scope.

Greg

Well, I don't believe I am ignoring the big picture necessarily, mate. But you are right in that I am rather narrowing my scope of view here...but with good reason I hope.

Hitler could have used his scope of influence, position, power, charisma if you like, to galvanize the nation under his control and do great things. That position was a brilliant opportunity for one man to show some strength of character. The choice was his to make.

And he made it...his ego was his master, and he the willing slave. He refused wise council from those clearly more experienced than he in everything from military strategy to matters of politics and affairs of the state. Even when that noble country was on the threshold of total destruction, this man made the choice to refuse capitulation and spare thousands of good German people terrible suffering and hardship...and further insulted them as he, in his infinite self absorption, abandoned them by making the selfish and cowardly choice of ending his own delusional life.

Hatred and bigotry ended the life of Martin Luther King. True, he must have known that his position of influence set him in harms way, but he had the strength of character to stand in that day and not be moved. What cut his life short was a bullet from a man who certainly would have had many of the same hopes, dreams and ambitions...freedom, security, acceptance, love...but chose instead to ignore the fact that, at the end of the day, all men bleed red when their blood is spilled... regardless of colour, background or ancestry.

Jim Morrison...charismatic...socially conscience...influential and intelligent...made a bad choice, his position didn't make it for him.

Sorry if I am coming off as a bit of a bickering, passionate wank here, mate. Truth is, I have spent some hard years observing the big picture being horribly mauled because the narrow scope of things that immediately effect it are not paid sufficient heed to.

I love the opportunities available in the music industry for artists, fame and positions of influence among them. This despite the many, many mind traps,delusions, and shotcomings already mentioned, of which for my part, I am only too brutally critical when the need arises.



...I just want the rape and abuse to stop is all.

Cheers

[xoxos]

there are things much more lethal to ambition than fame. eg. a simple thing like truth, depending on multivariety.

lj - are you still trying to earn the respect of the mob??? makes about as much sense as wanting them to govern you, eg. democracy. who the f**k wants a vector telling you what to do?? vectors are like totally malleable.

[Lunch Money]

Well, I don't believe I am ignoring the big picture necessarily, mate. But you are right in that I am rather narrowing my scope of view here...but with good reason I hope.

Well, this point is just more of what's already been said, and I still feel that it is a very far cry from the original point of the thread, AND it doesn't address any of the counter-arguments. 'Nuff said, or I'll just get frustrated with the cyclical nature of speculative and subjective debates.

Greg