Is Studio 1 the only realistic alternative to Cubase ?

[LeVzi]

If that solved the problem in a stable way, then yeah i'd be down for that. I hadn't heard of it tbh.

To be fair, that's not the only VST and VST3 host out there, there's quite a few:

New Sonic Arts Freestyle - https://www.newsonicarts.com/html/freestyle.php

PluginGuru Unify- https://www.pluginguru.com/products/unify-standard/

There's probably more out there I don't know about, but those three have been on my radar anyway.
All three are good companies.

It's potentially a complete solution, so thanks for that, all depends how Steiny block out VST2 I guess.

[syntonica]

Metaplugin, Image Line and Kush have free ones (that I don't recall the names of), to add to the list.

I've always found them all to be quite stable as being wrappers, just inconvenient as it takes two windows and two steps to get to your plugin GUI.

If someone sold a single-window wrapper that immediately exposed my GUI, I'd be first in line with cash in hand.

[gExpectations]

Not trying to start a pointless discussion, I think S1 is the best alternative to Cubase but I'm interested: what are you exactly missing in bitwig? Or is it more a gut reaction to the 2 panel window layout with a running device panel bottom. I use BitWig exclusively for linear timeline based production. I switched from S1. For composers, mixing engineers etc. its not very well suited but I think just for production its great (there are alot of unsolved minor problems in ui design and some missing functionality that would be a deal breaker in some jobs).

Plus it has the ability to selectively sandbox plugins or sandbox plugins by type.

[dellboy]

Not trying to start a pointless discussion, I think S1 is the best alternative to Cubase but I'm interested: what are you exactly missing in bitwig? Or is it more a gut reaction to the 2 panel window layout with a running device panel bottom. I use BitWig exclusively for linear timeline based production. I switched from S1. For composers, mixing engineers etc. its not very well suited but I think just for production its great (there are alot of unsolved minor problems in ui design and some missing functionality that would be a deal breaker in some jobs).

Plus it has the ability to selectively sandbox plugins or sandbox plugins by type.

You have answered your own question. "For composers, mixing engineers etc. its not very well suited". So it means producing in Bitwig and then exporting out for finishing. Why would you do that? Especially if you are just using the linear timeline in Bitwig and ignoring the clip launcher, grid etc which is pretty much Bitwigs main selling point.

[gExpectations]

You have answered your own question. "For composers, mixing engineers etc. its not very well suited". So it means producing in Bitwig and then exporting out for finishing. Why would you do that? Especially if you are just using the linear timeline in Bitwig and ignoring the clip launcher, grid etc which is pretty much Bitwigs main selling point.

I would say I was conceding that there are legitimate reasons to not use, but I was specifically interested in OPs reasons. For example, I know track folding is sub par in bitwig and I think there are still no VCA faders but yeah, as i said, I don't know what prompted *them* to instantly close it, or what they use a DAW for.

[dellboy]

I would say I was conceding that there are legitimate reasons to not use, but I was specifically interested in OPs reasons. For example, I know track folding is sub par in bitwig and I think there are still no VCA faders but yeah, as i said, I don't know what prompted *them* to instantly close it, or what they use a DAW for.

Ah, I see, I did not read the OPs post about "instantly closing" Bitwig.

Personally, I have extensively demoed Bitwig and am pretty familiar with it and think its a great DAW, but decided in the end to stick with Cubase and Studio One. My main reason being that in the end, as much as I like recording using a clip launcher, I am at heart a person who prefers linear based songs rather than repeating pattern songs, which is where I tended to end up by using Bitwig. And if i am going to compose using the linear timeline I may as well stick with what I already have.

[xbitz]

^^^ I would use Bitwig if Kilohearts - Snap Heap wouldn't have a Cubase skin, I don't like to orig one but this looks pretty (personally no needs supercomplex modulation etc. Snap Heap is enough for me)

not officially supported but ... goes here c:\ProgramData\kiloHearts\colors.conf , say goodbye to the orig one

[Trancit]

...For example, I know track folding is sub par in bitwig ...

Why do you think so??

I am not a Bitwigger but I always found their folder system absolutely great!
It looks great compared to crappy Studio One, being able to save/export folder clips is far more advanced than everything else in the market and how easy the view can be restricted to the current folder structure only is great too...

[gExpectations]

Why do you think so??

I am not a Bitwigger but I always found their folder system absolutely great!
It looks great compared to crappy Studio One, being able to save/export folder clips is far more advanced than everything else in the market and how easy the view can be restricted to the current folder structure only is great too...

The track grouping (putting tracks in folders) works great (slight issues with controller navigation tho), deactivating tracks works great, what i meant is the horizontal zoom -- my statement was kind of ambigous. There are only two horizontal zoom levels on BitWigs arrange view currently (you can make a track bigger manually but its mainly set so can ever have "the normal" or "the small" size view). As far as I understand if you work with alot of tracks this isn't enough.

[BONES]

Not trying to start a pointless discussion, I think S1 is the best alternative to Cubase but I'm interested: what are you exactly missing in bitwig?

Workflow. Yes, you can use Bitwig like you'd use Cubase but it definitely feels like you are using it wrong and, as we've seen with the update from v2 to v3, you'd be using a DAW that's not focused at all on your needs. So what would be the point?

In the same way that Bitwig is made for people who are used to working in Live, S1 is tailored towards people who are comfortable in Cubase.

I switched from S1. For composers, mixing engineers etc. its not very well suited but I think just for production its great (there are alot of unsolved minor problems in ui design and some missing functionality that would be a deal breaker in some jobs).

So why bother? Especially given what I said above.

Plus it has the ability to selectively sandbox plugins or sandbox plugins by type.

Not a feature I can imagine ever using. I've never really had any problems with plugins in S1 (or Cubase or Orion, for that matter). Yes, I've had instances of a plugin simply refusing to work but that's not something that's ever bothered me. After all, it's not like any of us are hurting for alternatives.

[gExpectations]

Not a feature I can imagine ever using.

I just mentioned it because people were talking about crashing plugins and how to deal with them. To why bother: Not sure about Bitwig or asking but I use BitWig because to me its fun and making music is not my job, and I asked because I thought its interesting to have a conversation and understand others viewpoint better. Also just gives me a better a idea of where to look for what, if it should become relevant at some point.

[BONES]

Fun? You must be doing it wrong because mostly it's just a boring grind.

[LeVzi]

So after Cubase drops VST2, will Studio 1 continue to use it ? I've contacted Presonus to ask that, but have they said anything up to now ?

I read this morning that Cthulu from Xfer probably wont go VST3 because of the MIDI issues, which is really fking annoying because I love Cthulu.

If S1 will continue to use VST2 , i'll be jumping ship from Steinberg.

[Rommelaar]

Cubase drops VST2 for MAC due to a decision made by Apple. Cubase on Windows will still have VST2 support.

[dellboy]

Now that Cubase 12 is here we can better compare the two..............