Korg multi/poly native - reimagined Mono/Poly Synthesizer plugin

[JamminFool]

I see old arguebirds is here again. You're wasting your time and breath mate - he'll find something to argue about endlessly. He's an expert you see, knows everything about every kind of synthesis ever made and everyone else is always wrong about something. TBH he's the only one I've ever blocked on KvR. Just makes it easier. All I can see is nice calm blank spaces now. I suggest you do the same if you value your sanity. There'll no doubt be some argument about how everyone one of us who has issues with these Korg plugins are doing something wrong. The fact there are so many people that can't play Korg plugins properly must go to show how many stupid people there are, not anything to do with poor coding. Can't possibly be Korg's fault even though in his own words Korg make shit synths. Circular arguments.

The nice thing with blocking means I know arguebirds is here, and I can make comments that I know will make him really want to argue until the cows come home...but I can't see it, don't get dragged into pointlessness. Naughty, I know, but WTF.

[Hanz Meyzer]

End of February seems to be the consensus.

Ah thanks. Will buy this one then. I really looked forward to the day when Korg will do proper, modern workstation plugins. This one is a really good foundation, in my opinion. Maybe said comb filter and cross-osc-sync still is missing, but then I can die (with this synth in my arms)...

[frag]

Multi-threading within a plugin itself means the plugin spawns worker threads to do computation, instead of doing all computation within the audio thread it's executed on by the DAW/host. There are plenty of circumstances where this doesn't work very well, like with low latency.

Exactly. But anyone using such complex virtual instruments should also be able to optimize DAW.
Years ago, I couldn't use Diva MT at all! I would get crackling all the way.

But then I read stuff on the internet, and here's the key for successful multiprocessing:
DISABLE WINDOWS CORE PARKING
Manually or through specialized application. Set CPU priorities if needed. That's it.

Dune multi-threading sucks, you know why? Because it's written on a system with Core parking enabled, which is absurd! There's NO way plugin can know what will OS do with threads!

So it's hyperthreading ON in BIOS, Core parking OFF in OS, Multithreading ON in plugin and DAW. If the authors of plugin wrote it this way, it will work perfectly.
Of course, multithreading in DAW may screw up some plugins optimized for single thread performance, but then you just split the voices between two instances running identical patch. Problem solved

I would definitely expect plugins to implement MT in 2025, but just like on the games market, software writers became lazy - they want you to buy the latest CPU and run a thermal plant in your room, even though good writing would make everything simple and efficient. This sucks big time

[frag]

delete

[D-Fusion]

Multi-threading within a plugin itself means the plugin spawns worker threads to do computation, instead of doing all computation within the audio thread it's executed on by the DAW/host. There are plenty of circumstances where this doesn't work very well, like with low latency.

Exactly. But anyone using such complex virtual instruments should also be able to optimize DAW.
Years ago, I couldn't use Diva MT at all! I would get crackling all the way.

But then I read stuff on the internet, and here's the key for successful multiprocessing:
DISABLE WINDOWS CORE PARKING
Manually or through specialized application. Set CPU priorities if needed. That's it.

Dune multi-threading sucks, you know why? Because it's written on a system with Core parking enabled, which is absurd! There's NO way plugin can know what will OS do with threads!

So it's hyperthreading ON in BIOS, Core parking OFF in OS, Multithreading ON in plugin and DAW. If the authors of plugin wrote it this way, it will work perfectly.
Of course, multithreading in DAW may screw up some plugins optimized for single thread performance, but then you just split the voices between two instances running identical patch. Problem solved

I would definitely expect plugins to implement MT in 2025, but just like on the games market, software writers became lazy - they want you to buy the latest CPU and run a thermal plant in your room, even though good writing would make everything simple and efficient. This sucks big time:hihi:

I agree.
Microsoft have been too agressive the last few years when it comes to cpu power and saving features that they make our cpu's slugish.

New install of windows has a agressive core parking routine that needs to be disabled and Core isolation in the security app does also hurt performance by around 10% so go into settings and search for core isolation to see if it is enabled.

To make sure that the core isolation is disabled by default you have to disable VT-d and Virtualization in the Bios.

[BONES]

No it doesn't. Stop looking at your system and just get on with making music. If you bump up against any limitations, use that to your advantage. Your life will be much, much better for it, I promise.

Good luck. I’ll be surprised if it’s still not broken, regarding the idle spikes on some CPU’s. The older the CPU, and more limited the market share, the less likely it’s going to get fixed if the cause isn’t immediately obvious or easy to solve.

Don't be ridiculous. They don't support older PCs because there is a limit to how many PCs they can have lying around to test on. There is no conspiracy here, it's a practical issue that should be obvious to anyone with even half a functioning brain.

Why mention the Triton too? Because it’s another example, I’m aware of, where Korg state minimum system specs which don’t always align with what their code supports.

Triton Extreme worked just fine on my last Core i5 PC. I don't think I installed it on my last Core i9 machine but it's working fine again on my new AMD powered computer. I just did a test and holding a 6 note chord only gets CPU usage to 8%. I can hold the chord for a full minute without experiencing any CPU spikes. That puts it at the very low end of CPU usage and, given that Studio One reports more than double the CPU usage I see in Task Manager, it's even more impressive.

As such they should change the minimum requirements to reflect what they’re prepared to support. Whilst it's always best to demo something anyway, it helps if users know where the cutoff point is for when something can be reasonably expected to work without issue.

I couldn't even find the system requirements on Korg's site and, with a demo version available, why would anyone even look?

There'll no doubt be some argument about how everyone one of us who has issues with these Korg plugins are doing something wrong. The fact there are so many people that can't play Korg plugins properly must go to show how many stupid people there are...

Mate, that's just the tip of a very large iceberg.

On old machine I run server CPU, and it's still in high end list even after 13-14 years.

No it's not. My current PC is the size of an 8" tablet, and it has 8 CPU cores, 16 threads, running at a base clock speed of 3.3 GHz and a boost speed of 5.5GHz. It will shit all over anything from 13-14 years ago, even top-end Xeons, which maxxed out at 4GHz turbo speed back then.

Why would I throw it away?

Because, by your own admission, it isn't doing what you need it to do any more.

With MT on, it can run hundreds of voices of Diva in divine quality. Most demanding patches, less than 100 voices. Still a lot! Huge!

But not even a single instance of a new VSTi that's no doubt optimised for modern configurations. Remember, you're the one complaining here.

But then Arturia makes SynthX V which aims at Diva sound quality, but skips MT, which is quite amateurish. There's nothing wrong with i7 920, it's the poorly written software. Cherry Audio is worse, they release completely unoptimized synths.

And yet, on my teeny-tiny little PC, I have no trouble running as many instances of Atomika or Pro Soloist as I like. You should realise, too, that I actually had to look up the specs of my computer, they aren't anything I've worried about for years. 13-14 years ago, I'd have pored over the specs of potential new PCs for endless hours but it's just not an issue in 2025. Shit just works these days.

Korg obviously wants you to buy HW version

If that's true, why release the VSTi version so soon, why not hold it back for a year or two until hardware sales slow down?

But anyone using such complex virtual instruments should also be able to optimize DAW.

But in 2025, why wou;d you bother? It's completely unnecessary in my experience.

So it's hyperthreading ON in BIOS, Core parking OFF in OS, Multithreading ON in plugin and DAW. If the authors of plugin wrote it this way, it will work perfectly.

Studio One and Blender 3D use all my cores fairly equally without having to do any of that stuff. What you read in 2008 is most unlikely to apply in 2025.

Overall, it surprises me how many people still think they are living in 2005 and still need to sweat the unimportant, little stuff. Shit works or it doesn't. Try it out and either buy it or move on. Life's too f**king short.

[frag]

Life's too f**king short.

Soon, you'll realize you've spent much, much more time reinstalling everything every couple of years on your new PCs, as well as writing these meaningless posts, than I spent optimizing old machine in a few clicks.

[IvyBirds]

I see old arguebirds is here again. You're wasting your time and breath mate - he'll find something to argue about endlessly. He's an expert you see, knows everything about every kind of synthesis ever made and everyone else is always wrong about something.

Hilarious to know I live in your head rent free, so badly you have to lie about me. I never said I know everything about every kind of synthesis

I just think people bitching and moaning about how 17 old CPUs have performance issues is rather strange

But I get it, you have supposedly blocked me but can't stop talking about me nice to know you care so much about little old me

quote=kritikon post_id=9029338 time=1737193340 user_id=2850]

The nice thing with blocking means I know arguebirds is here, and I can make comments that I know will make him really want to argue until the cows come home...but I can't see it, don't get dragged into pointlessness. Naughty, I know, but WTF.

Again hilarious, why would I care that you can't see what I write? If my goal is simply to argue with you there is nothing stopping me from replying to what you write to make my point

In that case the fact you can't see them only makes my point stronger as you supposedly can't counter point them

I could not care less about you, you seem absolutely obsessed with me. That right there is amazing

[IvyBirds]

What? Do you mean it won't work on my Atari Mega ST4

No, and it won't on my C64 either which is a shame I can't believe Korg would treat people like that, maybe I should bitch and moan about it on KVR, and then bitch and moan about the people who think my bitching and moaning is pointless

[IvyBirds]

There's nothing wrong with i7 920, it's the poorly written software.

Sure it's fine if you want to be limited to a 2.66 GHz standard speed (2.93 turbo) CPU with just 4 cores and 8 threads, want to be limited to just 24GB of RAM or less and have it be DD3,

Contrasted with a standard 3.4 GHZ (5.6 GHZ max Turbo) i7 today that has 20 cores and 28 total threads, and supports up to 193 GBs of RAM that's DDR5 (and I didn't even go into what an i9 or some of the new AMD Chips can do)

If you really want to have plugins have hyperthreading capabilities, why the hell are you singing the praises of only having 8 total threads? Knowing that your Operating System, DAW, and other plugins are going to be needing those same threads also? Knowing that you don't have significant RAM resources and the limited amount you do have is slow and needs to be shared again with the OS, DAW, and other plugins

In a modern 2025 DAW based workflow with multiple hyperthreading enabled plugins you need to have multiple threads available and with just 8 you don't

Now on such an ancient slow and limited system if you are just running a single plugin I can see why hyperthreading is so important to you as without it you just have a single core that is slow

If I had that computer laying around and it could do so well with DIVA, I would just network it to my modern PC, and use Audio Gridder and turn it into a DIVA server

I have a few older PCs in my system that while not from the Windows Vista era, are still pretty ancient. I use one as an Omnisphere server and the other as mainly a Valhalla server for reverb with Audio Gridder

In any case in 2025 with a modern CPU, modern RAM, modern SSD, modern motherboard etc I don't bother with minimum specs, or hyperthreading, or anything else. I just assume whatever plugin I want will run, I will let my DAW and my OS worry about managing the 24 cores and 32 threads on my i9, with 128GB of RAM I don't worry about that either, and with 8TB of SSD storage available, well that's not a concern either

But hey you do you

[frag]

What a f**** are you talking about?
I've got 24 threads on my "ancient" CPU
I've just said you can do a lot even on an old i7-920 with proper code & optimization, of course anyone with half brain would recommend more than 8 threads

[PAK]

I see old arguebirds is here again. You're wasting your time and breath mate

Oh, I’m aware (from the Roland Cloud thread, where he persistently makes incorrect comments about software he doesn’t use.) Though I should know better, than to respond, many skim threads, see posts (where he just makes shit up) and may think that’s actually what was said.

I don’t want to add anyone to block lists, but concede it’s likely the only solution in cases like these, where there appears to be an insatiable need for any attention, and any interaction merely serves to trash the thread further and make proper debate impossible.

[PAK]

Triton Extreme worked just fine on my last Core i5 PC. I don't think I installed it on my last Core i9 machine but it's working fine again on my new AMD powered computer. I just did a test and holding a 6 note chord only gets CPU usage to 8%. I can hold the chord for a full minute without experiencing any CPU spikes.

Ah, Bones. The voice of reason. Triton’s issue isn’t CPU use Bones, that’s OpSix. Triton’s issue is more specific and simple - The Extreme version added output converter modelling. This (and only this) doesn’t work on 1st gen i7. I speculated the reason may be that section of code uses AVX. It’s a minor issue and its only relevance, to any of this, relates to what the minimum level of support -actually- is, versus what Korg declare on their website.

The reason that’s such an issue, for OpSix, is nobody knows where that support level starts or stops. The website is supposed to tell you this, but it’s incorrect. OpSix’s issue also has nothing to do with CPU speed. Overload occurs whilst it’s idle. Kinda like the old “denormal” issue from the Pentium 4 days.

Korg Japan, for their part, already attempted to change the minimum system requirements (For Korg Collection 5) to Windows 11. This would’ve limited hardware support to 8th gen Intel or later. It was actually Dan (from Korg) who intervened, told them Arp 2600 works fine on Windows 10, and caused them to change it back. The issue being it then claims they’re going to support a level of hardware which they’re not actually supporting in reality.

Nobody (reasonable) expects any company can test every variable. But, if you’re going to declare a minimum spec, at least find a machine which has that spec and do SOME limited testing, vs making assumptions that a build will run on that config.

And, as also said - I use Apple Silicon, where everything’s working really well (Dare I say, better than x86/64 ) But there will be those who have reasons, whether money or their system still does what they need, who can’t or don’t want to upgrade. Those people should be able to rely on what a plugin creator reports as the minimum supported hardware spec. It appears this is not presently the case for some Korg plugins.

[Frantz]

Looking at the Korg site, I see there are multiple pages and the screenshot in this thread is the overview page. That overview page looks like it was designed by the summer intern.

Listening to the Soundcloud demos on the site, my impression is Korg is using outdated DSP which is not in the same class as the top tier stuff. My overall impression is "meh."
-
Synthesis page for Layer A

multi_poly.jpg

[JamminFool]

I see old arguebirds is here again. You're wasting your time and breath mate

Oh, I’m aware (from the Roland Cloud thread, where he persistently makes incorrect comments about software he doesn’t use.)

and has polluted that thread with the same complaints in walls of text over and over and over.

[...] there appears to be an insatiable need for any attention, and any interaction merely serves to trash the thread further and make proper debate impossible.

yup.