the analog warmth myth

[Highvoltage]

So guys you asked for the test havent you? where are the guesses?

i had a hard but very interesting time guessing which clip was which.
ok i think clip3.wav was pretty obvious it had more bass.
but when it came to the first 2.
firstly i thought they were the same. then i realised what to look for, and at the end i could guess which was playing with 98% precision.
i liked test file 2 better, i think it was warmer it had more body, and the kicks had a little more highfreqs. and what was very interesting:
(i used abx to compare them)
when ABX randomized the clip2.wav and i changed back to clip1 i could tell the difference every time. but when at a new guess the first i heard was clip1 and switched to the second i had a harder time to tell the difference. interesting. (maybe you can feel its absence better then its presence (like love muhahah))
i still dont know which was ment to be the warmer sound. i dont think i have the ears for this kind of judging, and the difference is so subtle.

so?

[CapnLockheed]

ha,ha,ha and anyone who complains about this thread prolly just spent all there money on another OVERPICED, USELESS doodad and will now spend hours tryin to argue some use for it.
"real tube warmth" from your brain meltdown

Exactly. I swear that most people defending their hardware are only doing it because they wasted so much money for it.

Roll your eyes all you want. it's still true.

It's not like i'm saying that ALL of the hardware owners are that way. Just most. Honestly, I think (and know) that [hi end] analogue sounds better, but it's an inconeniance that the functionality of software leaves in the dust.

My father just bought an analogue CD Player (seriously) and it's the best sounding thing i've ever heard.

All I know is that I'm not about to trade in my
'56 Fender Vibrolux for Guitar Rig anytime soon.
Even though turning it on and plugging in my guitar
is a major inconvenience!

Cheers.....CL

[jmh]

so?

You're acknowledging there is a difference. Even though it's subtle. And you're also acknowledging you might have not the ears for it.

That's about it. I don't share the same bat ears as bmanic and I certainly don't have the listening possibilities he has, but I hear a difference - so, at least something is "proven".

As for which one you prefer, that's a taste issue (not forgetting the disclaimer that if everybody and his cousin preferred the clean version, we're back to square one After all, the differences are that subtle and I'm not convinced these examples are extremely good at pointing out the thing being discussed... sorry bmanic =))

All this pretty much sums up the 'points we've been trying to get across

Now if only people understood that this isn't a religious discussion about absolute rights and wrongs, like you apparently did...

Regards,

JMH

[hello1234]

however i agree that argueing about it is retarded because it comes down to taste.

That is it in a nutshell. In what you "hear" that is absolutely the bottom line.

Not all people are the same, not all ears are the same, so unless YOU hear it, it really doesn't matter.

[The Chase]

however i agree that argueing about it is retarded because it comes down to taste.

That is it in a nutshell. In what you "hear" that is absolutely the bottom line.

Not all people are the same, not all ears are the same, so unless YOU hear it, it really doesn't matter.

not only what you hear but like to hear

[Highvoltage]

i still like what hydratone does to a drumloop, so i use these 'warming tools' as an effect, not trying to emulate anything. i think its the best you can do. and some of them really adds to the sound.

[Frippertronix]

for the record, I will never own an analog synth unless it's either a free one that somebody wants to give me or a modular.

And this is based on your view of vst analog emulation plug ins?!

All my favorite emulations out perform their hardware predocessors.

Which one outperforms the ARP 2500 and the Moog Modular, also the Oberheim SEM 8 Voice?

[Frippertronix]

I think there are great free plugs and great expensive plugs. Daniel, who posted earlier, makes plugs that stand up to many of the better payware ones.

I don't think it's true that plugins can't make things sound "warmer" than just unprocessed digitally recorded sound, but what would be interesting to me, speaking to the orginal poster, would be if he would list at least one plug in each major category that's free that he thinks outperforms even the most highly rated payware plugs.

[The Chase]

for the record, I will never own an analog synth unless it's either a free one that somebody wants to give me or a modular.

And this is based on your view of vst analog emulation plug ins?!

All my favorite emulations out perform their hardware predocessors.

Which one outperforms the ARP 2500 and the Moog Modular, also the Oberheim SEM 8 Voice?

How about reaktor, synthedit, and synthmaker, if you know how to use them?

Notice that 2 of those are free?

[Meffy]

Until someone comes up with a meaningful and universally acceptable unit of "performance" it'll be hard to test such a claim. :-D

And SE's free to download, but dashing some dosh McClintock's way is a good thing IMO.

[Frippertronix]

People are constantly expecting a truly dramatic difference of the processing of "vintage" plugins but the effect can be rather subtle for untrained ears.

I'd say a quite good rule of thumb is, insert voxengo tapebus over a mix at default settings and toggle it on and off. If you can hear that slight 'glue' and tightening of the mix then you have ears that can hear these subtle changes. One that doesn't hear the difference should not post these kind of threads. Of course hearing the tapebus effect doesn't make it better or worse it simply shows how subtle this 'vintage' thing should be.

- bManic

Good point and also, one should never underestimate their audience and their ability to hear subtle differences and appreciate them..

I can hear a difference in using GUP-1 or Sonalksis or Daniel Lind's TubeLimit vs. some that are just put out as generic freeware and make no claims to haveing any "warmth". The former plugs sound sweeter and the music "comes to life" more.

Is the difference dramatic? Maybe not, but some may not see a dramatic difference between Mt. Rushmore vs. Michaelangelo's Pieta in terms of quality, whereas others would see worlds of difference.

Subtle differences can be very pleasing to some listeners and not worth noticing to others.

[Frippertronix]

for the record, I will never own an analog synth unless it's either a free one that somebody wants to give me or a modular.

And this is based on your view of vst analog emulation plug ins?!

All my favorite emulations out perform their hardware predocessors.

Which one outperforms the ARP 2500 and the Moog Modular, also the Oberheim SEM 8 Voice?

How about reaktor, synthedit, and synthmaker, if you know how to use them?

Notice that 2 of those are free?

I've used the latter two, I may have demoed Reaktor but I can't remember.

We'll have to "agree to disagree" because, not having ever owned those classic synths I mentioned, I even hear what sounds to me to be better sound coming from my cheapo analog synths (a Sequential Six Trak and an Oberheim Matrix 1000---also had a Waldorf Pulse for a while).

I've demoed hoards of VSTi's and I still hear what to me is a deeper and smoother sound coming from analogs. I even hear it to some extent on the recordings.

Actually, there was a big argument a while back in the Instruments forum about one of the well known Prophet 5 emulations and someone who had that and a real Prophet 5 posted some clips. They probably aren't up anymore but you might try a search.

He was adament that the real synth sounded much better and I did agree when I heard the clips. The emulation was flatter, colder, harsher to my ears.

Having said all that, though, I do think GMedia are getting very close to a convincing sound with their products.

[Frippertronix]

I think we can distill the original argument down to a few questions, sort of like a flowchart:

1. Does real outboard analog sound processing gear sound "warm"? If so, go to step 2. If not. Stop and use any VST plug, whether or not it has the word "anolog" anwhere on it, since there is no such thing as "analog warmth" anyway.

2. Does real analog gear sound warmer than pure digital recording equipment? If so, go to step 3, if not, see above.

3. Is there any VST plugin of any kind that can reproduce a convincing likeness of the analog warmth agreed about in step 2? If so, go to step 4, if not, see above.

4. Among the VST's that make a convincing likeness of the acknowledged "analog sound", are any of them better than any of the other ones? If so, go to step 5, if not, use only free "analog emulation" VST's, since they're all the same and you might as well save your money or you're not only daft, you're a corporate whore.

5. Of all the "analog" sounding VST's, which are the best? Sort them out. Pay for the best ones if they are good enough to warrant it, otherwise use the free ones.

6. Stand up, turn off your computer monitor, and go get a beer.

[The Chase]

7. your first 5 bits were paraphrases

[Frippertronix]

7. your first 5 bits were paraphrases

Of what?