Tal J-8

[crickey13]

How is the current version in terms of stability and bugs?

[suthnear]

On top of using the V3 for the video, it was also strange to me he was comparing the brightness of the oscillators ('the TAL is darker' to paraphrase) and didn't mention that you can adjust the brightness in the TAL version by tweaking the OSC calibration knob on the main page.

You don't even need to do that. He seems to have missed the fact that the default patch for the arturia has around 75% vcf cutoff mod via envelope (with sustain at max), whereas J8 has env vcf mod at 0. If you add a similar depth of env mod, J8 is just as bright without even needing to touch the oscillator calibration...

[fmr]

On top of using the V3 for the video, it was also strange to me he was comparing the brightness of the oscillators ('the TAL is darker' to paraphrase) and didn't mention that you can adjust the brightness in the TAL version by tweaking the OSC calibration knob on the main page.

Felt like he hear wanted to rush to get a video out there and put some conclusions on YouTube to get views before really understanding the products in the comparison. Not the first time I've seen that and something I hope the creator learns from and improves upon in the future.

Not just that. He mentioned that TAL did "some effects" like a chorus and a reverb, when these were taken from the synths. He even mentioned that TAL did an emulation of the Juno-60 chorus, when TAL did, effectively, AN EMULATION OF THE JUNO-60, from which they took the chorus as a separate effect (that one made me laugh). And he then followed by mentioning that then they did the sampler (completely forgetting to mention the U-NO-LX), when the reverb was token from the TAL Sampler (as well as the DAC plug-in).

[e-crooner]

YT is full of attention whores posting dubious videos in order to get clicks and followers, what else is new...

[e-crooner]

Is the Roland chorus actually a flanger? Just wondering because as I was replicating a J-8 patch on another synth, I pretty much nailed the Roland chorus when using a flanger instead of a chorus

[fmr]

Is the Roland chorus actually a flanger? Just wondering because as I was replicating a J-8 patch on another synth, I pretty much nailed the Roland chorus when using a flanger instead of a chorus

Chorus and Flanger are both modulation FX. The difference is in the LFO frequency and delay modulation intensity. With enough control, the same effect unit can do both.

[e-crooner]

Is the Roland chorus actually a flanger? Just wondering because as I was replicating a J-8 patch on another synth, I pretty much nailed the Roland chorus when using a flanger instead of a chorus

Chorus and Flanger are both modulation FX. The difference is in the LFO frequency and delay modulation intensity. With enough control, the same effect unit can do both.

Not so sure it is the same thing. In Retrologue both chorus and flanger have exactly the same controls. And when I set them up in a certain way, and then switch back and forth between flanger and chorus, the sound is clearly different despite identical parameter values.

The Roland chorus sounds rather static and not as wavy as a chorus usually does.
Actually, it does, but only when I activate both chorus buttons.

[AnX]

managed to squeeze some time in with it....

i was disappointed with this synth, I was more disappointed about being disappointed tho

firstly, the gui is a big problem here, specifically the sliders/background, as a few others have mentioned, not easy to work with

the main 'problem' was the sound. There's nothing wrong with it, but nothing jumps out, it doesn't really scream analogue to me.... I know it's fairly basic, i already have the palette covered, but was hoping for a little bit of magic.... wasn't there for me

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Is the Roland chorus actually a flanger? Just wondering because as I was replicating a J-8 patch on another synth, I pretty much nailed the Roland chorus when using a flanger instead of a chorus

As pointed out above, Flangers are just Choruses with the primary difference being shorter delay times and sometimes feedback. Flangers are typically 0.1-15ms with the [sometimes] option of adding feedback for more jet-like flanges (at least with flanger fx pedals/racks/plugins). Very short flanges and thru-zero flanging get you that jet sound and were originally done with slightly misaligned tape machines. Choruses came a bit later and are usually 15-45ms or so and don't generally employ feedback in classic chorusing. But they're basically the same effect so it could. Here's the other thing: most choruses/flangers are basically just delay effects with time modulated by an LFO.

Now, when it comes to the Juno, the delay time varies from around 1.5ms to 5ms, which is very much indeed in that flanging range:

https://www.reddit.com/r/synthesizers/c ... uno_106es/

This page also has a ton of information (not just Juno choruses but many classic Roland choruses including full schematics): http://www.florian-anwander.de/roland_string_choruses/

Also some information from an Eventide Rep here about getting in the ballpark: https://www.eventideaudio.com/community ... -chorus-h9

So if you want to emulate a Juno chorus using another plugin, try this:

1. Very short delay (start at say 3ms and consider adjusting)
2. 50/50 wet/dry mix
3. If you have the option to filter the chorused/delayed signal, definitely lowpass that to get it dark
4. For Chorus Mode I: 0.4 to 0.5hz triangle LFO with modulation of left and right channels 180 degrees out of phase
5. For Chorus Mode II: 0.6 to 0.8hz triangle LFO with modulation of left and right channels 180 degrees out of phase
6. For Chorus Mode I+II: 8hz (very fast) sine (shape changes) LFO, using same phase for both channels (mono)*

I got very close using Syntorus 2 in Analog BBD mode and these types of settings.

*The TAL Juno Chorus does not work like this at all. Sounds like Patrick decided the original behavior sucked (it kinda does) and did his own thing for the combined mode on the TAL choruses, which sounds like a deeper chorus than I or II instead of a fast, mono chorus.

[e-crooner]

Thanks for all the info

Sine vs triangle can also make a difference, indeed.
I noticed that quite some time ago with other LFO modulations. I assume that it has to do with the fact that, per period, with the triangle there is less time where the signal is very weak. So, although the triangle looks more edgy due to its corners, it actually sounds smoother.

I will experiment with those settings you mentioned...

[e-crooner]

Is the Roland chorus actually a flanger? Just wondering because as I was replicating a J-8 patch on another synth, I pretty much nailed the Roland chorus when using a flanger instead of a chorus

6. For Chorus Mode I+II: 8hz (very fast) sine (shape changes) LFO, using same phase for both channels (mono)*

I got very close using Syntorus 2 in Analog BBD mode and these types of settings.

*The TAL Juno Chorus does not work like this at all. Sounds like Patrick decided the original behavior sucked (it kinda does) and did his own thing for the combined mode on the TAL choruses, which sounds like a deeper chorus than I or II instead of a fast, mono chorus.

Wow, 8 Hz sounds horrible, way too fast in my view.

My old Toneboosters' Module plugin is great for making such effects

[Captain]

Sine vs triangle can also make a difference, indeed.
I noticed that quite some time ago with other LFO modulations. I assume that it has to do with the fact that, per period, with the triangle there is less time where the signal is very weak. So, although the triangle looks more edgy due to its corners, it actually sounds smoother.

Yeah, that's actually the interesting thing about modulating the delay time of a delay line, and how that relates to pitch. The resulting pitch modulation is the derivative of the time modulation waveform, which means that when we modulate the delay line with a triangle wave, the pitch jumps between two values, like a square wave. This sounds smoother than one might think, as the jump in pitch isn't usually that obvious, especially when using two delay lines with out-of-phase modulation. And since the derivative of sine is cosine (which is 1:1 like sine, just different phase), a sine modulation also produces sine-shaped pitch modulation. (The same principles also apply to frequency/phase modulation in synths, and explain why phase modulation is essentially the same as FM when using sine waves.)

Not trying to derail the conversation or sell my own products, but in this video I demonstrate how to create chorus and flanger -like effects using the same LFO-modulated delay line, just with slightly different settings: ...so, as explained earlier, the line between a chorus and flanger can be a little fuzzy, as they are both based on modulated delay lines (but there's also about a million things you can do to get different variations).

Anyways, been playing a lot with Tal J-8 over the holidays. I'm not going to argue about the sound or anything like that... to me it sounds like a synthesizer, and once we get past a certain point in sound quality (which we have already done, I think), it's more about things like clear GUI, freely resizable window, plugin window open time (which is _really_ fast, btw!), a good developer worth supporting, etc. All those are well covered here.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Is the Roland chorus actually a flanger? Just wondering because as I was replicating a J-8 patch on another synth, I pretty much nailed the Roland chorus when using a flanger instead of a chorus

6. For Chorus Mode I+II: 8hz (very fast) sine (shape changes) LFO, using same phase for both channels (mono)*

I got very close using Syntorus 2 in Analog BBD mode and these types of settings.

*The TAL Juno Chorus does not work like this at all. Sounds like Patrick decided the original behavior sucked (it kinda does) and did his own thing for the combined mode on the TAL choruses, which sounds like a deeper chorus than I or II instead of a fast, mono chorus.

Wow, 8 Hz sounds horrible, way too fast in my view.

My old Toneboosters' Module plugin is great for making such effects

Yeah, in my own preset I think I used 7.2 and brought down the depth to make it not so bad.

[bite_me]

managed to squeeze some time in with it....

i was disappointed with this synth, I was more disappointed about being disappointed tho

firstly, the gui is a big problem here, specifically the sliders/background, as a few others have mentioned, not easy to work with

the main 'problem' was the sound. There's nothing wrong with it, but nothing jumps out, it doesn't really scream analogue to me.... I know it's fairly basic, i already have the palette covered, but was hoping for a little bit of magic.... wasn't there for me

Same here. I really wanted to bury my mind and beeing amazed from the new and shiney...
I simply missed some low end bump. I´m more amazed by Hive2 with it´s 3 engines/flavours. And after some long time I now like Dune3. And I like the chorus in RP Bit much more which could be combined with that gritty phaser easily with no "phasing issues". I´m a toyboy.

[briefcasemanx]

Sine vs triangle can also make a difference, indeed.
I noticed that quite some time ago with other LFO modulations. I assume that it has to do with the fact that, per period, with the triangle there is less time where the signal is very weak. So, although the triangle looks more edgy due to its corners, it actually sounds smoother.

Yeah, that's actually the interesting thing about modulating the delay time of a delay line, and how that relates to pitch. The resulting pitch modulation is the derivative of the time modulation waveform, which means that when we modulate the delay line with a triangle wave, the pitch jumps between two values, like a square wave. This sounds smoother than one might think, as the jump in pitch isn't usually that obvious, especially when using two delay lines with out-of-phase modulation. And since the derivative of sine is cosine (which is 1:1 like sine, just different phase), a sine modulation also produces sine-shaped pitch modulation. (The same principles also apply to frequency/phase modulation in synths, and explain why phase modulation is essentially the same as FM when using sine waves.)

Not trying to derail the conversation or sell my own products, but in this video I demonstrate how to create chorus and flanger -like effects using the same LFO-modulated delay line, just with slightly different settings: ...so, as explained earlier, the line between a chorus and flanger can be a little fuzzy, as they are both based on modulated delay lines (but there's also about a million things you can do to get different variations).

Anyways, been playing a lot with Tal J-8 over the holidays. I'm not going to argue about the sound or anything like that... to me it sounds like a synthesizer, and once we get past a certain point in sound quality (which we have already done, I think), it's more about things like clear GUI, freely resizable window, plugin window open time (which is _really_ fast, btw!), a good developer worth supporting, etc. All those are well covered here.

Haha, I bought this module the other day on accident (just looking at the name, not even looking at the panel layout, I think I was drunk) thinking it was a simple delay (as in send fx delay with feedback) effect with modulation like in old versions of Cubase (I think it was called mod delay or chorus delay) and then was immediately disappointed, then like 30 seconds later was overjoyed when I realized it could, with some minimal tinkering, do what I wanted it to do and way, way, way more. Very nice module!