Free FM Synthesizer Dexed (VST Windows and Mac)

[sebber]

Hi all,

I was wondering if there is not a better way to visualize what's happening soundwise in FM synthesis. The DX7 has the algorithms printed on the surface and six separate envelopes for the oscillators. FM8 has 8 envelopes underneath each other, which is hard to read, too. Dexed also has the algorithm matrix and six envelopes, albeit with that very nice animation in which phase the envelope is.

Considering that FM works by "colouring the sound of a sine oscillator by FM'ing it with another one", wouldn't it make sense to approach the visualization differently by putting the envelopes of one the oscillators on top of each other? That way one could easily see the volume envelope and the "changing the sound envelope" all at once. Something like this:



OSC1 is the carrier/volume, OSC 2 is modulator 1/change of sound (and also going a bit in empty space ) and OSC 3 is modulator 2. It's not perfect, of course, but maybe it's better than having three envelopes next to each other?

Now, the extremely beautiful drawing above is only the time scale. Maybe it's another idea to shade the colours according to intensity (in DX7 words: operator output level). If the output level of modulator 1 is only 50% than it would be only an antique pink instead of a bright red. I'm sure there are many things that could be done?

Cheers
Sebastian

[Spitfire31]

That's creative and innovative thinking. I have no idea how it would work out in context, but kudos for thinking outside the box!

/Joachim

[sebber]

I have a question regarding the very first factory patch in Dexed, "Say again.": the last (6th) osc sounds almost like white noise in Dexed. On the DX7 the last sound sounds much more like a Bass note. It's as if the feedback level in Dexed is much higher. Dexed and DX7 sound the similar only when I set feedback to around 4. Is this a bug or is it because the DX7 and Dexed have different settings (like velocity not going up to 127)?

[Norrin_Radd]

I'm just gunna say it... The 8 knobs for the envelopes are really just not doing it for me.

[asb2m10]

Now, the extremely beautiful drawing above is only the time scale. Maybe it's another idea to shade the colours according to intensity (in DX7 words: operator output level). If the output level of modulator 1 is only 50% than it would be only an antique pink instead of a bright red. I'm sure there are many things that could be done?

That's very interesting stuff but this should be explored on something else than Dexed. I'm designing a new lowfi plugin (4 op) that has an optional 3d visualizer... maybe this should be added.

I have a question regarding the very first factory patch in Dexed, "Say again.": the last (6th) osc sounds almost like white noise in Dexed. On the DX7 the last sound sounds much more like a Bass note. It's as if the feedback level in Dexed is much higher. Dexed and DX7 sound the similar only when I set feedback to around 4. Is this a bug or is it because the DX7 and Dexed have different settings (like velocity not going up to 127)?

Yep, I've seen this and the msfa implementation has a very aggressive envelope... next version will be way softer for the feedback if you use the "Mark I" engine.

I'm just gunna say it... The 8 knobs for the envelopes are really just not doing it for me.

Agreed. But this is what the DX7 is.

[sebber]

Thanks for the fast feedback. I haven't noticed the different feedback in most patches, Dexed is by far the closest to the original!

[pestomusic]

I'm designing a new lowfi plugin (4 op) that has an optional 3d visualizer... maybe this should be added.

This was the part that got me REALLY excited. TX81Z or FB-01 on the same quality level as Dexed? Shut up & take my money!

[overhishead]

I'm just gunna say it... The 8 knobs for the envelopes are really just not doing it for me.

Agreed. But this is what the DX7 is.[/quote]

a dx7 does not even have rotary knobs at all, but dexed has dozens. a dx7 does not have a filter either. there is no rule that says we are not allowed to use macro controls. it changes nothing about the dx7 emulation just because someone makes an easier to use node based envelope editor.

at this point, Oxe is the better freeware FM synth, simply because it is infinitely easier to edit.

go for it devs, make a new envelope editor for dexed.

[sebber]

Dexed is a DX7 emulation, Oxe is also a FM synth. I think this sums up the similarities between them. They try to achieve different goals and I therefore wouldn't compare them this broadly.

[Norrin_Radd]

Perhaps some documentation would help. The unlabelled knobs are just really hard for me to visualize.

[overhishead]

Dexed is a DX7 emulation, Oxe is also a FM synth. I think this sums up the similarities between them. They try to achieve different goals and I therefore wouldn't compare them this broadly.

How about 'best freeware fm synth' for starters? That's what I was referring to, and that is nothing to sneeze at.

How accurately does Dexed emulate the DX7's famous filter?

Broadly speaking, I use FM for the sound, not to pretend I am Michael Mcdonald circa 1982. It DOES matter which fm synth you reach for when you have an idea, and right now Oxe is the easier synth to use by several orders of magnitude, unless you happen to be Brian Eno, in which case you have 10 broken DX7's already.

Or unless you rely primarily on presets. I own every Yamaha fm synth including the fs1r and dexed is harder to use than a tg77 (which is much more complex) on soundiver from 15 years ago. So why is that?

If Dexed is such an anal reproduction, lose the filter. or lets get up to date and add macro controls i.e. a node based envelope method that combines level and rate in one node.

[fmr]

How accurately does Dexed emulate the DX7's famous filter?

DX7 famous WHAT?

Regarding documentation, anything written for the DX7 (and there are dozens of examples) suits for DeXed. The book written by David Bristow and John Chowning was already mentioned and is highly recommendable: "FM Theory and Applications by Musicians". Also, this article by Gordon Reid, belonging to the Synth Secrets series is also very good: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/apr00/a ... ecrets.htm

And of course, you should also download the DX7 manuals. Yamaha still have them available.

[pestomusic]

How about 'best freeware fm synth' for starters? That's what I was referring to, and that is nothing to sneeze at.

If you read through all 66 pages in this thread, you'll surely understand that it was never the objective to create the best free FM synth. The goal was to create the best DX-7 emulation/editor, free or not.

How accurately does Dexed emulate the DX7's famous filter?

Not sure if serious or trolling.

Broadly speaking, I use FM for the sound, not to pretend I am Michael Mcdonald circa 1982. It DOES matter which fm synth you reach for when you have an idea, and right now Oxe is the easier synth to use by several orders of magnitude, unless you happen to be Brian Eno, in which case you have 10 broken DX7's already.

I find Dexed to be pretty straight forward to program and have saved a couple of patches already. And I'm not talking about the usual sizzling nonsense, I'm talking useful patches. It's the first FM synth I ever dared programming. What does that say about Dexed?

Or unless you rely primarily on presets. I own every Yamaha fm synth including the fs1r and dexed is harder to use than a tg77 (which is much more complex) on soundiver from 15 years ago. So why is that?

If Dexed is such an anal reproduction, lose the filter. or lets get up to date and add macro controls i.e. a node based envelope method that combines level and rate in one node.

What exactly is your problem with the filter? There's cutoff and resonance and that's about it. Most patches don't even make use of the filter, my own ones included, so I barely notice it's even there. If you feel Oxe is so much better in any regard, why don't you just use that one? I for one am heavily irritated by its interface that ignores basic UI rules, starting with the colour scheme.
And don't get me started about the Aqua look (digital vintage from 2002 - yay) and 105 pots (excluding those 50 from the matrix).
If you find that easier and more intuitive, I guess that's fine. Different strokes and such.

[toothnclaw]

Hi all,

I was wondering if there is not a better way to visualize what's happening soundwise in FM synthesis. <...>

Considering that FM works by "colouring the sound of a sine oscillator by FM'ing it with another one", wouldn't it make sense to approach the visualization differently by putting the envelopes of one the oscillators on top of each other? That way one could easily see the volume envelope and the "changing the sound envelope" all at once. Something like this:

Too bad the dev has already ruled it out, I figured out how best to do it in under 30 secs: just look at FL Sytrus envelopes, then look at FL Studio's Piano Roll Ghost Channels - Editable Ghosts, then just add in the Dexed Matrix (or in the dedicated env editor) easy selectors to enable/disable visibility for each oscillator's envelope, and which should be on top - that's it.

But a DX7 emu is not supposed to be user-friendly, UI or otherwise...

[sebber]

and dexed is harder to use than a tg77 (which is much more complex) on soundiver from 15 years ago.

C'mon, let's stay serious. There is really no comparison between Dexed and TG77 on Sounddiver. And yes, I do have the TG77 and Sounddiver running.

I own every Yamaha fm synth including the fs1r

So you own DX7, DX7S, DX7 IIFD, DX9, DX11, DX21, DX27, DX100, DX200, TX7, TF1, TX216, TX816, TX81Z, TX802, TQ5, FB-01, YS200, V50, FS1R, TG77, SY77, SY99? Do you also have the DX7 Jubilee version? Why? (Sorry, I couldn't help myself. I had to compile this list for an article I wrote on the DX7 and it just came in so handy)

Personally, I find the GUI of Dexed much more appealing than Oxe, but that's a personal preference. I actually prefer programming the DX7 from the panel, so I'm obviously strange anyway.

I find most books and texts about the DX7 still overly technical. A real dummies guide is "The Complete DX7" by Howard Massey. There's better and worse copies flying around, a better one is nicer. It is quite wordy, on the other hand he really tries to make it as easy as possible.

Cheers
Seb