KVR Audio

lingyai · Post by **lingyai** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:32 am

Having used aids - essentially cheat sheets (things based on the circle of fifths, etc. ) to determine which chords tend to work well within a given key, I'm miles ahead of where I was a month ago. Some of the progressions I've made this way sound quite nice to my ears.

Having said that, a song built only on them can sometimes sound somewhat … tame or safe… the kind of thing which would make grandma clasp her hands and say, "Aw, isn't that nice!" I think what is missing is key changes. The key change in -- to pick one of around 100,000 examples - Penny Lane is what makes it special. I'm sure everyone knows of of pieces where a key change "kicks it over the top".

Is changing keys a matter of trial and error, or are there any (even rough, non fail-safe) guidelines for, for example, if you are in the key of C, which key would be good to change to, depending on the mood of the piece?

(Please, if you happen to be anti-shortcut / anti-guideline- let's not have that argument here - think harmony

)

tapper mike · Post by **tapper mike** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:30 am

Key changes can be direct or modulated you an even cycle thru changes in a progression.

Let get into cycling. Cycling thru keys requires that you have a very very steady beat/pattern. The trick with the motif is to simply transpose the phrase as you cycle thru the changes.
Lets take Popcicle Toes
http://www.chordie.com/chord.pere/www.g ... 38843.html

I hate chordie because it doesn't show the measures.

The verse section is jazz/blues in A
You'll notice that the last chord in the Verse is A and the next chord which is the chorus is Am That is a direct change in key.

The chorus is a walkdown From the key of G down to C#
In Classical terms this is called Sequential Modulation
Each four bars is a ii-V-I
{Am7 D7(9) } GM7---|
{Gm7 C7(9) } FM7---|

etc
There is a lick that ties the verse back to the verse (it's shown as an E7 but there is no chord) The E7 makes a nice rounding out going back to the verse which of course is in A so you have a V chord going back to the one.
Now that oddly is a modulation.

With all that going on it's still not a dramatic change going on.

tapper mike · Post by **tapper mike** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:55 am

In the above when I wrote about going from the verse in A to the chorus starting in G both keys share 5 tones. I refer to this as tonal centers even though there is a key shift most of the tones work through.

A common technique is called Parallel Modulation.
For example in the verse you may have the key of E and then in a bridge change it to Em

There are also direct modulations to unrelated keys.
Take a look at "And I love her" by the beatles.

The first half is in E or C#m
The second half is in F

tapper mike · Post by **tapper mike** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:22 am

There is also another way that doesn't involve key change.
You can change the chords you use in the bridge to add tesion.

lingyai · Post by **lingyai** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:51 am

these links and tips look useful -- will check them out more after work. Thanks tapper mike

Ogg Vorbis · Post by **Ogg Vorbis** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:26 pm

I've always thought the abrupt key change up a step to freshen the sound as being one of those "granny hand clasping" techniques. I mean Air Supply and Barry Mannilow sort of wrung that one dry in 1986.

You might look in other directions. If your harmonies are in need of a quickie paintjob to keep up the interest, try building the interest INTO your chords to begin with.

Maybe all you need is for your phrases to have more contrast between them or within them. You can build contrast by altering the tonality with a temp modulation, altering the rhythm, changing the harmonic rhythm (the rate that the chords change), changing the texture (dropping the drums and just having hi hat for example) or a combination of the above.

If you solve the issue of too much unity, you might not need to slap a keychange on there. (no offense to penny lane...great tune and the key change is only icing on a delicious cake, not slapping heels and a pushup bra on a homely farm girl.)

(No offense to farm girls...some of my best friends are from farm families.)

lingyai · Post by **lingyai** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:43 pm

Ogg Vorbis wrote: not slapping heels and a pushup bra on a homely farm girl.)

(No offense to farm girls...some of my best friends are from farm families.)

So that would explain the dark side of the moo....

lingyai · Post by **lingyai** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:50 pm

Sorry, kidding aside -- tahks for these suggestions, Ogg

wrench45us · Post by **wrench45us** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:56 pm

one of the simplest and smoothest key changes is moving a major to a minor. The Beatles were masters of this to generate just the little pensive twist of mood. Some songs get so turned around that I know I'm playing a major chord, but it sounds minor.
In that same vein a lot of the best key changes are deceptions of a few bars and then the original key sounds refreshed when it comes back.
The thing is if you just try throwing various devices at a chord progression it sounds exactly like throwing various devides at a chord progression; there has to be some sort of musical intent/purpose.

Some books I have are very good about how to smooth the transition to very unlikely keys. I find these exercises really interesting on a theoretical and thought process basis and somehow satisfying, but I can't recall ever actually using any of these. If one switches to very closely related keys, it's so smooth it's often not readily apparent at all.

Ogg Vorbis · Post by **Ogg Vorbis** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:56 pm

lingyai wrote:
So that would explain the dark side of the moo....

I have a feeling that Meffy has got a good pun up her sleeve...

Are you there, oh great one?

lingyai · Post by **lingyai** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:34 pm

wrench45us wrote:one of the simplest and smoothest key changes is moving a major to a minor.

As in, using the same "lettered" key, e.g from C major to C minor?

lingyai · Post by **lingyai** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:52 pm

Ogg Vorbis wrote:
lingyai wrote:
So that would explain the dark side of the moo....
I have a feeling that Meffy has got a good pun up her sleeve...

Are you there, oh great one?

You mean.... Meffy's a ... g-g-g-irl?

OMG

We've INTERACTED

tapper mike · Post by **tapper mike** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:04 am

lingyai wrote:
wrench45us wrote:one of the simplest and smoothest key changes is moving a major to a minor.
As in, using the same "lettered" key, e.g from C major to C minor?

Yep I covered that

A common technique is called Parallel Modulation.
For example in the verse you may have the key of E and then in a bridge change it to Em

Uncle E · Post by **Uncle E** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:01 pm

Any major chord can become the Dominant 5th of a key you want to modulate into. For example, in the key of C, the C Major Tonic and F Major 4th can become the Dominant 5th's of F Major and Bb Major, respectively.

An even more powerful modulation would be to raise the 6th to become a Dominant 5th, which allows you to do the classic pop modulation of raising a whole tone, as found at 3:17 of Thong Song:

tapper mike · Post by **tapper mike** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:13 pm

Jazz and pop of the 20's thru the 70's does that all the time with 1-6-2-5 progressions.
Any minor 7th can be swapped with a dominant7 but that's not a modulation just a subsitution. There are quite a number of rules/guidelines for subs but that really is another subject.

Tips for changing keys within a piece?