Question / Feature Request (quantizer+expanded midi patcher)

[pitchdrifter]

Hi Jørgen,

is it somehow possible to freely assign trigger notes to audio parts (just like its possible to assign them freely to midi parts)? Would be great being able to trigger an audio part like that for live usage.

Also I've been wondering if its already possible (and I just don't see how), or if you could implement a midi quantizer device, which can be wired in infront of a vsti device (or elsewhere) and which in real time quantizes the midi going through it to a grid of the specified note value? Also having live use in mind here, when triggering midi and audio parts via a single midi key - to make sure they're triggered perfectly in sync when the user wants to do that. If the midi input arrives shortly after a quantize point in the grid, it'd be great to have the option in this device, to make it kick-in with the playback of the following midi part in-sync, at the next possible musical note value.
Example: with a 1 bar quantize i hit the key a 16th note too late.. now it'd be great to have the option to enable a function which starts playing back the following midi part not from it's beginning, but from the beginning plus e.g. an 8th note (definiable 2nd grid note value), so another 16th after I pressed the key. Basically the result is that the midi part now plays in sync as if I had triggered it correctly (or shortly before) a 1 bar quantize grid-point, only it took up playing in the middle of the midi part, instead of it's beginning.
I know this does sound mighty confusing
Quantizer in itself would be great already - the midi-clock type sync to make midi parts play back somewhere in the middle (i.e. not 1.1.1.1) in order to keep them synced to the quantize grid (kinda like a midiclock synced arpegiator) would be cool, but of course less important than a basic quantizer.

Furthermore, could you possibly expand the midi patcher or implement a new midi device which lets the user route incoming CCs to other CC numbers? For example I want the modwheel to controll the velocity of one of my midi parts, so I'd insert a CC router infront of that midi part which re-routes the CC1 to velocity, while the same modwheel movement controls modulation for another midi part (where i simply don't insert that CC router in the midi-signal flow). If this is already possible and I just am being blind, would highly appreciate a heads up


thanks for your time and the patience to make it through the 2nd paragraph


rav

[NicFit]

is it somehow possible to freely assign trigger notes to audio parts (just like its possible to assign them freely to midi parts)? Would be great being able to trigger an audio part like that for live usage.

Also I've been wondering if its already possible (and I just don't see how), or if you could implement a midi quantizer device, which can be wired in infront of a vsti device (or elsewhere) and which in real time quantizes the midi going through it to a grid of the specified note value? Also having live use in mind here, when triggering midi and audio parts via a single midi key - to make sure they're triggered perfectly in sync when the user wants to do that. If the midi input arrives shortly after a quantize point in the grid, it'd be great to have the option in this device, to make it kick-in with the playback of the following midi part in-sync, at the next possible musical note value.
Example: with a 1 bar quantize i hit the key a 16th note too late.. now it'd be great to have the option to enable a function which starts playing back the following midi part not from it's beginning, but from the beginning plus e.g. an 8th note (definiable 2nd grid note value), so another 16th after I pressed the key. Basically the result is that the midi part now plays in sync as if I had triggered it correctly (or shortly before) a 1 bar quantize grid-point, only it took up playing in the middle of the midi part, instead of it's beginning.
I know this does sound mighty confusing
Quantizer in itself would be great already - the midi-clock type sync to make midi parts play back somewhere in the middle (i.e. not 1.1.1.1) in order to keep them synced to the quantize grid (kinda like a midiclock synced arpegiator) would be cool, but of course less important than a basic quantizer.

It's already possible to sync MIDI parts to the next beat with the "syncronizer", but unfortunately the "syncronizer" runs on it's own timeline...you can have control over the syncronizer tempo, but you have no control over when the starts, so it will be out of time with your host, or sequencer component(unless your licky enough to hit play at the right time )
...improved sycronisation with the options you list has been discussed recently, and is high up on jorgens priority list. A recent POLL had these features in 3rd or 4th place...you may wanna go add your vote

Furthermore, could you possibly expand the midi patcher or implement a new midi device which lets the user route incoming CCs to other CC numbers? For example I want the modwheel to controll the velocity of one of my midi parts, so I'd insert a CC router infront of that midi part which re-routes the CC1 to velocity, while the same modwheel movement controls modulation for another midi part (where i simply don't insert that CC router in the midi-signal flow). If this is already possible and I just am being blind, would highly appreciate a heads up

I already have some plugins that can do this...
Although jorgen has a "Transform" component planned for manipulating MIDI messages that should handle all that stuff including scaling values.

Check this thread and grab the CC2CC and the Velocity Scaler plugins.


nF

[silicon/silicium]

just adding that in order to have a real great midi patching in ext, we could need a midi 1>M switcher, to route alternatively midi from an entire keyboard to differents target. currently it can be done in a vst/i because it don't support multi midi output, but a proper ext comp, with a switch triggered by cc or midi note, could be cool....

[NicFit]

You could build a MIDI channel switcher and switch between 16 different channels with different destinations...and stay within the VST spec
I have a few prestes that do this, but it requires an automatable plugin that switches MIDI channels...I have several...I'll try to get one hosted on a server and give you a link in a while. But I agree this should be part of the "Transform" component I expect.


nF

[silicon/silicium]

switch between 16 different channels

but with only one midi out, and only one channel out, which can be tricky if you must resplit later in your rig.. but I agree, it's possible. in fact currently I made three se plug ins responding to the same cc, but not in the same way: eg cc25 dv33 mute the first, the second and let pass trhough the third... efficient but tricky.... may be I should try with side chaining operation passed by audio

[NicFit]

switch between 16 different channels

but with only one midi out, and only one channel out, which can be tricky if you must resplit later in your rig.. but I agree, it's possible. in fact currently I made three se plug ins responding to the same cc, but not in the same way: eg cc25 dv33 mute the first, the second and let pass trhough the third... efficient but tricky.... may be I should try with side chaining operation passed by audio

no...builing this inside XT you have seperate ports for each channel... it will take me too long to explain...let me upload a file


nF

[lalo]

just adding that in order to have a real great midi patching in ext, we could need a midi 1>M switcher, to route alternatively midi from an entire keyboard to differents target. currently it can be done in a vst/i because it don't support multi midi output, but a proper ext comp, with a switch triggered by cc or midi note, could be cool....

As a live-geek as i am ...agreed!!!
lalo

[NicFit]

http://members.cox.net/rld23/XT%20prese ... itcher.zip

try that...you will need PolyIblit and MIDI Channeliser from the NDC_MIDI Plugin pack.

...I have the channel switching mapped to the mod wheel, but you can change the mapping to something else.


nF

[silicon/silicium]

that's a shame but Im currently a non registered learning user , so I can't load your work (will register in early september, as soon as money and musical projects will come back. currently I explore and learn ext...), but I can easily figure how do you did the trick. I ve seen your tutorials too, and you really have interestings ideas in routing and using a modular host in a real modular way (not like me héhé, old school represent )
thx for your great help and infos

[NicFit]

I'll see if I can throw a small tutorial together for unregistered users


nF

[NicFit]

I'll see if I can throw a small tutorial together for unregistered users


nF

Here's a small tutorial preview...still without captions, but I'm short on time...I'm trying to get together a downloadable version of the flash tutorials to post later this morning, but it's taking longer than I anticipated.


nF

[pitchdrifter]

hm I see that theres a velocity to CC tool - any way you could possibly do a CC to velocity tool?
What i'm trying to do is modulate velocity of the midi data being sent from midi parts => arpeggiators => VSTi with the modwheel, as a LOT of patches have filter cutoff (and other things) controlled by the note velocity. I'd like to modulate that velocity in realtime with the modwheel, in order to get cross pattern modulation going.

[NicFit]

hm I see that theres a velocity to CC tool - any way you could possibly do a CC to velocity tool?
What i'm trying to do is modulate velocity of the midi data being sent from midi parts => arpeggiators => VSTi with the modwheel, as a LOT of patches have filter cutoff (and other things) controlled by the note velocity. I'd like to modulate that velocity in realtime with the modwheel, in order to get cross pattern modulation going.

I was gonna do one, but you can just map the Mod wheel(or any CC#) to the MIN and MAX values of the Velocity Scaler/Inverter plugin on the same page...



nF

[pitchdrifter]

that doesnt work in this scenario I'm afraid, as it lets through note on/offs (i have to connect it parallel to the parts/arps and connect it directly from master midi input to the VSTi.. as the midi parts don't let CC data through, and when I set them to thru-mode, they let the trigger-note through as well).
Ideally a modwheel-velocity adapter would have 2 midi inputs: one to send the actual note events into it from the parts/arps, a 2nd to connect directly to the master midi input to receive the CC data, and the ability to selectively allow only CC or only note on/off (2 tickboxes for each input) to pass into the adapter plug from the respective midi input would be very helpful.
Basically the CC selected to be read from input 1 would be used to set (or scale) the velocity of the note events passing through the adapter via input 2.

In case you end up doing a plugin like this or Jorgen ends up including any such plugins directly in XT

[NicFit]

that doesnt work in this scenario I'm afraid, as it lets through note on/offs (i have to connect it parallel to the parts/arps and connect it directly from master midi input to the VSTi.. as the midi parts don't let CC data through, and when I set them to thru-mode, they let the trigger-note through as well).
Ideally a modwheel-velocity adapter would have 2 midi inputs: one to send the actual note events into it from the parts/arps, a 2nd to connect directly to the master midi input to receive the CC data, and the ability to selectively allow only CC or only note on/off (2 tickboxes for each input) to pass into the adapter plug from the respective midi input would be very helpful.
Basically the CC selected to be read from input 1 would be used to set (or scale) the velocity of the note events passing through the adapter via input 2.

In case you end up doing a plugin like this or Jorgen ends up including any such plugins directly in XT

How could it possibly set a notes velocity without passing note-on and note-off messages?? ...it's meant to be used "inline"...I'm have a hard time picturing how you are trying to hook it up in "Parallel". You use a midi patcher connected between the Master in and the Velocity scaler to filter the notes and pass only CC data to control the Velocity Scaler...


nF