Logic 7 AU problem

[mblack]

Logic 7 looks nice but there is a serious problem with the new AU setup engine.
Basically logic 7 doesn't support waves and loads of other AU plugins .
TDM plugins work fine
DTDM don't.

Apple never told anyone about this problem and I just paid £200 to upgrade but I cant work .

Its disappointing but was expected after Apple took over.

Maybe its time to find another Sequencer with another computer .

I just spend over 25k on a new HD3 accel, bought loads of plugins and a G5 2ghz 2gig Ram.

I have seen some manufacturers have already begun fixing the problem but apple are irresponsible releasing a 'pro' program to the market but not warning anyone about this problem. Most of us "pro's" use 3rd party plugins and instrument and if I had known about this problem I wouldn't have bothered upgrading. (Now Im back on logic pro 6.4.2).

mac

[josephx]

Are you referring to the AU checker that more-or-less seems to deem all AU plugs as invalid?

I've been seeing a lot of posts about this on the Logic Users Group (Yahoo! Groups) and some users have found disabling the AU checker in the preferences takes care of the problem -- well, for a handful of plugs. Not really sure about Waves.

It sounds like a bad situation, regardless. I'd give disabling the AU checker a shot if you can find the setting to do so. I'm still on 6 and can't provide any suggestions beyond what I've read, but I can only imagine the disgust (so figured the suggestion might be helpful?).

Good luck. If you have any good developments, please let me know. I was pretty anxious to upgrade before hearing of this.

-joe.

[meister eder]

I have seen some manufacturers have already begun fixing the problem but apple are irresponsible releasing a 'pro' program to the market but not warning anyone about this problem.

It's not really about fixing a "problem", but about making 3rd party plugins follow the AU specs more accurately. Your benefit will be that hosts which do only allow plugins that pass the test will be significantly more stable. Ableton's Live for example follows the same specs as Logic7.

And obviously the problem is solved quite easily, like this post from Macmusic forum shows:

Spectrasonics has already posted updates,
NI states on their website to have updates within a few days, many of their plug-ins already work as is, such as Absynth, Battery, Pro 53 and Reaktor.
Waves is also planning an update.
MHC released new versions weeks ago in preparation to this.
Arturia has already started releasing version that pass.
Celemony's Melodyne passes and was released 2 months ago.
u-he's Zebra works
Soundhacks Spectrasonics plug-ins pass.

Also, like josephx stated already, you can bypass the validation temporarily if you need to - works for most plugins.

[putte]

but apple are irresponsible releasing a 'pro' program to the market but not warning anyone about this problem. Most of us "pro's" use 3rd party plugins and instrument and if I had known about this problem I wouldn't have bothered upgrading. (Now Im back on logic pro 6.4.2).

yes .. there´s a lack of information there, true.

the whole AU-thingie is an adventure, now going into another round. people who dont know how to bypass this new validation-test are getting upset, and didnt know about the validation at all.

thats something emapplegic should have clearly pointed out.

people like you and me go into the net, into forums etc. to keep themselves updated. but there are also a lot of other people doing pro work with logic, using 3rd party plugs, not knowing what we internet nerds know.

lack of information.

i for one am glad that we at least have the possibility to bypass the test, and according to several reports on the net logic 7 can then use the plugs we had running under logic 6.

putte

[wonshu]

The AU validator has been out and available to developers for over a year now (AFAIK).

So it's clearly the responsibility of the plug-in developers to make their shit compliant and thus more stable and that's in the interest of all of us.

And as far as I heard, things still work in Logic 7 without passing the test, but use it at your own risk and contact your developer!

Cheers
wonshu

[putte]

The AU validator has been out and available to developers for over a year now (AFAIK).

we are users.

So it's clearly the responsibility of the plug-in developers to make their shit compliant and thus more stable and that's in the interest of all of us

think about this statement a bit longer please.
if you talk to developers about all this au stuff don´t be surprised to see long faces .. it means work, work and work. and only because another company stated to bring the world another "superior" plugin format, in a world already crowded with too many formats maing everything more difficult.

And as far as I heard, things still work in Logic 7 without passing the test, but use it at your own risk and contact your developer!

many people post lists of plugins not passing without bypassing the test.

dont have logic 7 yet (germany has to wait), but i did the test with the soundtrack au-testtool .. 19 plugins didnt pass.

putte

[DHR53]

Not one plug I own failed validation so far... I don't have a lot of plugs, but just good ones... Absynth, FM7, Pro 53, Zebra, and Linplug's stuff...

[wonshu]

Putte:
we are users.

Me:
Yes, and as such we are entitled to stable products which is why I think it's good that Logic now refuses to work with plugs that may cause problems due to bad spec implementation. Said implementation and test has been available to the developers for quite some time, so don't blame Logic, blame the developers who decided that it wasn't worthwhile to really adhere to the AU-Standard. That was my whole point BTW.

Me:
So it's clearly the responsibility of the plug-in developers to make their shit compliant and thus more stable and that's in the interest of all of us

Putte:
think about this statement a bit longer please.
if you talk to developers about all this au stuff don´t be surprised to see long faces .. it means work, work and work. and only because another company stated to bring the world another "superior" plugin format, in a world already crowded with too many formats maing everything more difficult.

Me:
I do actually talk to developers quite a lot (some of them you know!) and the most I hear is that most plug-in developers design their software poorly, thus putting the users (yes, that's what I am!) at risk of loosing work due to crashes.

putte:
many people post lists of plugins not passing without bypassing the test.

yes, my point exactly, nothing has changed except now you are told that the software you paid money for does not comply with the specs of the AU standard. That's all and I think it's good to press the vendor of your product to adhere to a standard for the sake of stability.

Cheers
wonshu

[putte]

wonshu .. all in all we 2 agree .. the whole au-affair is still a challenge: for the users and for the devs.
and thats, at the end of the day, not what we wanted.



putte

[mblack]

wonshu so what you are saying is that you release an upgrade for logic and although plugins that work with 6.4.2 dont work with Logic 7 it is not your problem. well my friend -IT IS !!! If you're trying to be small headed and not care about 3'rd party problems then you're in for a big surprise - logic plugs ate ok but waves are far better and minimoog is far better then anything logic 7 has (I can continue but Im sure you understand what I mean).
I use logic on a daily basis and had a lot of success using it, I find it hard to understand why no one told me that there might be a problem with the new AU checker before I upgraded and its not about the financial £200 fee - thats easy (although 6.4.2 came out 4 month ago £129)
It is about respecting your customers and letting them know about related problems- you (as in apple/emagic) behave like you dont care and Logic with all the love is still and will always be dependend on other plugins, instruments and sound cards - they day you take the responsibility and admit that is the day when Logic will not only be the best seq but have the best customer service which is as important.

Now after all this moaning can you please tell me where I can disable the AU checker?

cheers
M

[putte]

good post, mister black.

[wonshu]

Easy guys and putte: yes, we are basically agreeing!

All I was saying is this:

The developers of third party plug-ins knew very well that Logic will have this "feature". That's why they all come out daily with updates to work with Logic 7.

And I agree totally that it's not possible to live without certain 3rd party plugs...

So it will be a month we all have to deal with Logic 6 before moving to Logic 7, but all I wanted to say is: it's not really Emagics fault this happened, it's the 3rd party developers that ignored the AU specs for quite some time now. And I'm sure they were being told to have their stuff up to speed and in compliance with the AU standard.

That's all I was saying, and BTW, I'm sure I'll fork over the upgrade price and be happy with the new features, but at the same time I'll be so mad at Apple for not removing some of the long term bugs that none of the Beta-Testers seem to mind, because most of the time these people probably don't work under time-pressure and don't know what it means to interrupt creativity in favor of a workaround. (The most annoying one in my book is the terrible zooming that's screwed up as it is, but when working in folders it's even worse, try it you'll see...)

So, just to be clear: I'm not defending Apple for including the AU checker. I'm dissing the 3rd party people for not designing their stuff according to a standard and thus putting our work at risk.

Cheers and no hard feelings here!
wonshu

[wonshu]

the whole au-affair is still a challenge: for the users and for the devs.
and thats, at the end of the day, not what we wanted.

You're right... but we do enjoy the features that AU offers, no?



Cheers
wonshu

[putte]

You're right... but we do enjoy the features that AU offers, no?

if i´d know them i could tell you.

so far i just saw them crashing way more often than my vst´s under os9, and there are problems with the interfaces as well.

so, what are the features you mean, from your experience?
Compared to vst, for example?

putte

[wonshu]

- better stereo implementation (or better: true mono )

- interfaces more flexible (funny we don't agree on this...)

- more stable (in my experience, sorry)

- makes me feel more secure, because it's connected to Apple and therefor Logic instead of Steinberg (sorry, this is very personal, I know, but that doesn't make it less real)

Obviously I've touched personal perception here also, but to me and my reality AU makes more sense than VST... again: this is just my personal feeling about this issue and I can be wrong about it

Regarding crashes: I only have crashes when dealing with freeze/unfreeze. Other than that I have no (in numbers 0) crashes while working. This was way different a year ago, but the culprit wasn't AU it was MOTUs 324 card which is why I stopped using any of their products. Since then working has been a breeze and I even forgot to hit save after every edit.

Cheers
Hans