izotope - Tonal Balance Control well or go by ear?

[Caine123]

sorry guys to make another topic.... im in the middle of mixing and mastering sessions and learn a lot atm and i got ozone 9 since a long time but i dont use it much, sometimes i use the assistant function to just compare and get a fake 2nd opinion but i also checked TONE CONTROL more and i wonder if this is really any good? e.g. my track looks like this and this is a more moody track so i got in the middle/higher frequencies not much going on and the bassy part is a bit more focused like i wanted it.



with earphones and on my main rig it also sounds good in my opinion i also compared it to a reference track but there is not a real reference track for this song for me but i come kinda close.

so yeah is this thing a gimmick or a good waypoint to orientate?

thx

[Jac459]

I use it a lot. To me it is quote accurate and faster than referencing.
I also have proq3 with the frequency match feature, balance control is better to me.

[Dark Fiber]

It's a great plugin, I use it on all my masters.
However, you have to load in your own references if the standard profiles don't match your genre.

[Caine123]

thx a lot for the replies, ahhh i totally forgot to load some references, yes for modern or heavy bass it was mostly ok in the mids but in the top end i nearly always am below the target but there is just not much in the upper regions and shouldnt be e.g. with some droney stuff. this explains it!

[MogwaiBoy]

I can't trust Tonal Balance Control in the low end - it even says my references have too much, sometimes even when I load them in as a custom profile and compare against themselves - so something's not quite right with it.

Mastering the Mix 'Reference' is the best tool for me to get accurate tonal balance vs my references, because it's based on using your ears mostly, with some visual clues to help. Solo'ing each band against your mix is very revealing and way more useful than Tonal Balance Control.

[Jac459]

I can't trust Tonal Balance Control in the low end - it even says my references have too much, sometimes even when I load them in as a custom profile and compare against themselves - so something's not quite right with it.

Mastering the Mix 'Reference' is the best tool for me to get accurate tonal balance vs my references, because it's based on using your ears mostly, with some visual clues to help. Solo'ing each band against your mix is very revealing and way more useful than Tonal Balance Control.

What do you mean when you say it tells you you have too much bass? Is it the crest factor or the actual wave being higher that the reference? If it is the latter it is weird. I can try to reproduce your steps if you confirm.

Also tonal balance isn't against referencing, you can/should do both.
Tonal balance rough quick values, referencing for fine tuning.

[Jac459]

thx a lot for the replies, ahhh i totally forgot to load some references, yes for modern or heavy bass it was mostly ok in the mids but in the top end i nearly always am below the target but there is just not much in the upper regions and shouldnt be e.g. with some droney stuff. this explains it!

In EDM,the high end is generally filled by hihats, snares and stuff like that. Or sometimes processed pink noise, some fxor ondeed some droney stuffs....
The thing if you don't use this band (let's say 8k to 20k), is that at equivalent loudness compare to another track, your sound will feel with less energy and impact...
Always think in the context of a mix (in particular on electronic, everybody is using the max of the bass already, so your track will just appear to have less energy overall because you don't use all).
Sometimes you can still want that. But in general, I am trying to isolate the bands missing energy and try to fill it in a way coherent for the song .

[Jac459]

thx a lot for the replies, ahhh i totally forgot to load some references, yes for modern or heavy bass it was mostly ok in the mids but in the top end i nearly always am below the target but there is just not much in the upper regions and shouldnt be e.g. with some droney stuff. this explains it!

In EDM,the high end is generally filled by hihats, snares and stuff like that. Or sometimes processed pink noise, some fxor ondeed some droney stuffs....
The thing if you don't use this band (let's say 8k to 20k), is that at equivalent loudness compare to another track, your sound will feel with less energy and impact...
Always think in the context of a mix (in particular on electronic, everybody is using the max of the bass already, so your track will just appear to have less energy overall because you don't use all).
Sometimes you can still want that. But in general, I am trying to isolate the bands missing energy and try to fill it in a way coherent for the song .

Another way is to compress more the lower end trying to find the right balance between loosing dynamic and filling the spectrum. Sometimes you can tweak the side chaining of your bass vs drums to save a few DBs.... This way you don't have to fill the uper end as much...

[an-electric-heart]

I use it for everything. But agree with what was said above. I pretty much always use it "fine" mode, and use the "bass heavy" preset, but even then when I've got my mix right in the zone (according to the bass heavy preset), it kind of sounds like there isn't enough bass.

[noiseboyuk]

I was very sceptical about it at first but have learned to love it. It's usually right. It shouldn't be the boss of you so much as the friend who tells you home truths that can be hard to take. I guess most people who've worked with it know this, but it'll obviously give misleading results on parts of a track which are stripped down - it's best used on the moments where it's all going on.

Also as my many years go by, I don't hear those very-highs as well as I used to. Frankly it's absolutely invaluable there. Since the bald facts are that everyone's hearing starts to deteriorate as soon as early-twenties, I think this is an aspect of it that is vastly under-appreciated.

Definitely NOT a gimmick.

[Jac459]

I was very sceptical about it at first but have learned to love it. It's usually right. It shouldn't be the boss of you so much as the friend who tells you home truths that can be hard to take. I guess most people who've worked with it know this, but it'll obviously give misleading results on parts of a track which are stripped down - it's best used on the moments where it's all going on.

Also as my many years go by, I don't hear those very-highs as well as I used to. Frankly it's absolutely invaluable there. Since the bald facts are that everyone's hearing starts to deteriorate as soon as early-twenties, I think this is an aspect of it that is vastly under-appreciated.

Definitely NOT a gimmick.

Agreed, tonal is not the only tool for referencing.... BUT it is an excellent tool and extremely useful.
This is part of tool I use EVERY time....

[Jac459]

I use it for everything. But agree with what was said above. I pretty much always use it "fine" mode, and use the "bass heavy" preset, but even then when I've got my mix right in the zone (according to the bass heavy preset), it kind of sounds like there isn't enough bass.

Be careful, we almost always have a tendancy to create more bass than necessary. I am reducing the bass of my mix AND my master 100% of the times...
You need to have the same level of bass than your reference tracks, or it won't fit well in the mix...

[MogwaiBoy]

I use it for everything. But agree with what was said above. I pretty much always use it "fine" mode, and use the "bass heavy" preset, but even then when I've got my mix right in the zone (according to the bass heavy preset), it kind of sounds like there isn't enough bass.

Yeah! That's what I was trying to say above too.

I mean... I'm gonna walk my comments back a bit - Tonal Balance Control 2 is a very awesome tool, but I only use it in combination with other tools and tried and true referencing methods. I would prefer to compare my song to other songs by ear, not by eye.

I know if the bass curve is hovering around the very top end of the 'Bass Heavy' preset, it's probably OK.

[giant_panda]

I can't trust Tonal Balance Control in the low end - it even says my references have too much, sometimes even when I load them in as a custom profile and compare against themselves - so something's not quite right with it.

Maybe the reason behind this is that it analyzes average spectrum of the whole track, so when you compare the track against itself there is a difference since the real time analyzer has a 10s or so window by default. Try to analyze only the most tonally stable part of the track and then compare it to itself. In my case this test shows exactly the same stable result.

[Jac459]

I mean... I'm gonna walk my comments back a bit - Tonal Balance Control 2 is a very awesome tool, but I only use it in combination with other tools and tried and true referencing methods.

I can't disagree with this statement...