Recording Audio and MIDI simultaneously from my iPad GeoShred into Logic (using my bought instruments)

[paulhepker]

Hi - I can't figure out how to send AND receive MIDI on GeoShred [iPAD].

I have setup an External Instrument connected via iPAD on Logic, and am trying to connect to my GeoShred App. (Performance AND playback)

I have bought the GeoShred Studio app but it doesn't let me access my complete Naada Collection, so that's no help. Waste of $50.

So I am trying to use GeoShred as an External Instrument in the same way that I use EVERY other Instrument on my iPad...

Normally I would be able to control the iPad instrument with either the iPad interface, or one of my studio hardware MIDI controllers, or a mixture of both.

Logic would record the MIDI input from all of those sources, and I would be abe to hear what I am playing through the USB Audio connection from my iPad.

Does GeoShred specifically block the ability to send (perform) AND receive (playback) MIDI from the iPAD?

If so... why? Apart from greed?

[lapses-thesis]

Curious did you buy geoshred iPad? I know the control version which is free doesn’t not support payback but even the free version allows to send the midi to things like garage band.

[bizdev@moforte.com]

Hi - I can't figure out how to send AND receive MIDI on GeoShred [iPAD].

I have setup an External Instrument connected via iPAD on Logic, and am trying to connect to my GeoShred App. (Performance AND playback)

GeoShred on your iPad can be used as a MIDI Sender/Receiver or Audio Sender via IDAM. Here is an FAQ that explains how to do that.

https://www.moforte.com/geoShredAssets7 ... x.html#vst

I have bought the GeoShred Studio app but it doesn't let me access my complete Naada Collection, so that's no help. Waste of $50.

I'm unclear why you purchsed GeoShred Studio. GeoShred Studio is an VST3/Auv3/Au plugin that runs on the Mac. Based on your description or your use case, I don't think that you need it.

So I am trying to use GeoShred as an External Instrument in the same way that I use EVERY other Instrument on my iPad...

See the FAQ above.

Normally I would be able to control the iPad instrument with either the iPad interface, or one of my studio hardware MIDI controllers, or a mixture of both.

Yes you can do that.

Logic would record the MIDI input from all of those sources, and I would be abe to hear what I am playing through the USB Audio connection from my iPad.

Does GeoShred specifically block the ability to send (perform) AND receive (playback) MIDI from the iPAD?

Not at all. Under "Menu> MIDI> DIN you can switch between MIDI In and MIDI Out. I should point out that when we did the MIDI stack for GeoShred 11 years ago, core MIDI did not support simultaneous MIDI In/Out, so called "Local Off". That is why there is a toggle between MIDI In and MIDI Out. Core MIDI may support that now. If you can point me to an app that both sends MIDI and receives MIDI at the same time without going into a MIDI feedback loop, we would be happy to look at this issue again.

If so... why? Apart from greed?

I’m sorry you’re having a frustrating experience. We’d like to understand what’s going on and help if we can.

The best way to reach us is by email at support@moforte.com. You can also contact us from within GeoShred by going to Menu > Help > Report a Problem…", which will create an email with useful diagnostic information and give you a place to describe the issue.

We’re usually able to respond within about an hour during California business hours, and typically within eight hours around the clock.

I’d like to respond to your public comments about greed, since I’ve seen that concern raised in several of your forum posts.

I understand that pricing can be frustrating, especially when products exist on both mobile and desktop platforms. At the same time, I want to say clearly that greed is not what motivates moForte. For us, this has been a long-term passion project built around physical modeling synthesis, expressive performance, and bringing these instruments to musicians in a practical form.

Some of us have been working in physical modeling, in one form or another, for 50 years. It has been a long road from the early research to GeoShred as a product. If you’re interested in that history, I recently gave a talk for AES/CCRMA about the development of physical modeling synthesis:

https://www.moforte.com/pm_synth_aes_ccrma/

Some of the models in GeoShred come from partners such as Audio Modeling for GeoSWAM and AccelMatrix for Naada. We are bound by their licensing terms, which treat mobile and desktop as separate markets with separate pricing structures. This is also common in the industry: buying a mobile SWAM instrument does not include the desktop version, and buying a desktop SWAM instrument does not include the iOS/iPadOS version. We have worked to keep GeoShred’s pricing competitive with other providers of advanced physical modeling instruments.

It is also tempting to compare the value of a physical model to a sample set, but they are very different kinds of products. A sample library can certainly involve a great deal of work, but a physical model is closer to a research project and software instrument in its own right. Each model requires significant development, testing, tuning, and musical refinement. As one example, I personally spent two years researching plucked string instruments (Chordaphones) and the feedback electric distortion guitar modeling between 1994 and 1996, and moForte later spent roughly another two years on additional research and development in that area.

So while I understand the concern about cost, I don’t think it is fair to characterize GeoShred’s pricing as greed. We are trying to sustain a specialized body of work, honor our licensing commitments, support continued development, and keep the products reasonably priced for the markets they serve.

I hope this helps clarify why GeoShred is priced and structured the way it is. We do care about our users, and we welcome you to contact us directly when you run into problems or have questions about how to get the most out of the product.

Gregory Pat Scandalis
CTO, acting CEO,
moForte, inc
Chairman of the MPE Committee (MIDI Association)
Co-Chair of the AI Working Group (AIWG), IASIG
gps@moforte.com
http://www.moforte.com
^((1[b3,3][b5,5,#5])|(125)|(145))[6]?[b7,7]?[b9,9,#9]?[11,#11]?[b13,13,#13]?$

[paulhepker]

Hello Gregory. Thanks for the detailed (if somewhat delayed response...) I have - as you mentioned - posted on a few forums when I first tried to incorporate your Mac App into my workflow, but then I stopped watching for replies. In the meantime I had about a year of severe life issues that took me away from music creation completely.

Let me be absolutely clear about one thing from the start - I absolutely love your product, and I have since it first came out on the iPad. In fact, over a relatively short period of time, I recklessly spent a LOT of money buying every single instrument available on your iPad app, at fairly considerable cost, compared to the pricing of other professional-grade iPad apps.

Comparatively, I found your pricing structure to be prohibitively expensive, especially for musicians not earning Dollars, Euros or Pounds. I know that's not your problem - we can't always have what we want. However - a number of developers take into account the relative cost in different countries, and adjust prices accordingly. Also - there has historically been better value to be found in iPad apps... you can get synths and apps that are hundreds of dollars on the desktop for fractions of that price on iOS.

I have in my experience found that developers offer significant discounts or cross grade to customers who have registered products on other platforms. I was hoping that this would be the case with you guys.

On so many levels, you seemed to care very little about money already spent on supporting your products, and when I saw the opportunity to bring GeoShred into Logic Pro, and control it with my iPad, it seemed too good to be true.

At every step of the way I felt like I was being asked (imo) unfairly to pay for something that I had (in my view) bought already. You may say that this is based on pure thumbsuck - however there are a number of apps that run natively in the Mac environment, so it is my understanding that they are not vastly different platforms. Perhaps I am wrong.

I have done app development for a lot of iPad apps, and featured them (with credit) in some of the fairly high profile movies I have scored (Eye In The Sky, for instance, used Borderlands extensively, and I credited and worked with Chris on that movie).

It also seemed like the instruments you included in your Studio purchase were never the ones I needed... So that got frustrating. Perhaps composers could choose a selection of introductory instruments?

I'm rambling on here. My apologies. You have stated why you feel your pricing is fair. I get all the work that you spent on physical modeling - and that it is not sampling. I've been on the bleeding edge of digital music creation and composing since cLab... That's why I paid the high prices I paid for every Geo and Naada instrument on the iPad. Hundreds of dollars.And worth every cent (most of them!)

I'm happy to engage privately with you and will send you an introductory email. To be honest - the grievances that seemed so clear a year ago have faded somewhat, and I have probably mellowed from my initial indignation. Also, as I say, some tough life events have somewhat changed my outlook on stuff.

That said - I am still struggling to get a really good workflow between my iPad and Logic. I've wasted a fair amount of time trying to understand Logic's finicky setup when it comes to external instruments, external MIDI, and of course, receiving audio from the iPad.

Unfortunately every time I want to do it I am in the middle of a project, and deadlines force me to curtail my "learning on the job" time.

Thanks again fro your response.