Would really like to get a hold of Alchemy

[andy-cytomic]

But yeah.. would be really nice if they updated them again (remember, Alchemy already did update the filters once! Andy from Cytomic helped create the currently available ones).

Just a clarification here: I did not create any of the filters in Alchemy. Ben got Antti to create the filters, then due to the fact they were breaking at various settings (not just sounding harsh but actually crapping out) I helped stop them breaking while preserving the current sound for patch compatibility.

I am sorry to post some wrong statement.
Did you write the EQ8 filter ? or any filter in Ableton apart the Glue ?

I wrote the core linear SVF algorithm (ie no drive) that is used in EQ8, which is only a few lines of DSP that does the innermost number crunching and is told which cutoff / Q (damping), and high/band/low mix levels. I also helped them with the "oversampling" / "natural phase" mode. The guys at Ableton wrote the vast majority of EQ8, including the UI and the shapes being used. This algorithm is in the public domain and you can read about it here: www.cytomic.com/technical-papers

I also wrote The Drop, a non-linear analog modelling resonant filter plugin (ie adds drive / distorts), and Ableton have licensed 4 of the MD (medium detail) filters from it. There are 10 filters in total in The Drop, and they also come in HD (high detail) which gives a better sounding result but uses more cpu to get it. These 4 MD filters are used in various devices including Simpler, Operator, Wavetable, AutoFilter, Echo (PRD filter in the feedback section) etc.

[bmanic]

But yeah.. would be really nice if they updated them again (remember, Alchemy already did update the filters once! Andy from Cytomic helped create the currently available ones).

Just a clarification here: I did not create any of the filters in Alchemy. Ben got Antti to create the filters, then due to the fact they were breaking at various settings (not just sounding harsh but actually crapping out) I helped stop them breaking while preserving the current sound for patch compatibility.

Ah! Awesome, thanks for clearing that up. My bad for getting it completely wrong!

[pbr985]

Same with amplitude.. you already can have a super stable sound that isn't all over the place dynamically, without using any kind of compressor. Again, simply by using the modulation mapper and a few levels of modulation depth.

Could you please teach me how you do this, like with an arpeggiated bassline? Sounds very interesting.

[uselessmind]

Hi Everyone
Does anyone have any idea on how to obtain a copy of Alchemy, the full synth not the player? I know it lives on in Apple Logic but I do not have a MAC and do not plan on getting one any time soon.
It does show up on some web stores when doing a Google search but all of the links I have found are either dead or show it discontinued. Also tried EBay but no luck there. Thanks in advance for any help with this.

Laqua

If you are still interested, i sent you a pm a while ago.

[bmanic]

Same with amplitude.. you already can have a super stable sound that isn't all over the place dynamically, without using any kind of compressor. Again, simply by using the modulation mapper and a few levels of modulation depth.

Could you please teach me how you do this, like with an arpeggiated bassline? Sounds very interesting.

You just map the keys/frequencies that are sticking out to the main output volume of the preset.

Say, if the note C4 is louder than all other notes in the preset (for instance due to the filter + resonance happening to trigger those frequencies more than others) then you just make sure C4 note is modulating the output volume down, while all other notes get no treatment.

[pbr985]

Same with amplitude.. you already can have a super stable sound that isn't all over the place dynamically, without using any kind of compressor. Again, simply by using the modulation mapper and a few levels of modulation depth.

Could you please teach me how you do this, like with an arpeggiated bassline? Sounds very interesting.

You just map the keys/frequencies that are sticking out to the main output volume of the preset.

Say, if the note C4 is louder than all other notes in the preset (for instance due to the filter + resonance happening to trigger those frequencies more than others) then you just make sure C4 note is modulating the output volume down, while all other notes get no treatment.

Thank you top lad. And why is this method better than just evening the volume out with a limiter at the end (which seems to be quicker - just to through it on instead of searching for the loudest note etc). Does it give you sonically better results when you do it with modulation at synth level?

Also could you advise how to accurately measure notes’ volume? Is it just an oscilloscope and would you look at peak or rms level?

[bmanic]

Same with amplitude.. you already can have a super stable sound that isn't all over the place dynamically, without using any kind of compressor. Again, simply by using the modulation mapper and a few levels of modulation depth.

Could you please teach me how you do this, like with an arpeggiated bassline? Sounds very interesting.

You just map the keys/frequencies that are sticking out to the main output volume of the preset.

Say, if the note C4 is louder than all other notes in the preset (for instance due to the filter + resonance happening to trigger those frequencies more than others) then you just make sure C4 note is modulating the output volume down, while all other notes get no treatment.

Thank you top lad. And why is this method better than just evening the volume out with a limiter at the end (which seems to be quicker - just to through it on instead of searching for the loudest note etc). Does it give you sonically better results when you do it with modulation at synth level?

Also could you advise how to accurately measure notes’ volume? Is it just an oscilloscope and would you look at peak or rms level?

Because: Say you play a chord with C4, E4 and G4, a basic major chord.. now if you try to either automate the volume or slap a limiter/compressor on it, ALL the other notes and the whole sound gets changed only due to the one single "too loud/bad sounding" C4 as used in my example. If you do it in the actual synth itself you can make that chord play very nice and even.

"Well why can't I just lower the volume in the piano roll/midi clip?" I hear you ask.. well, what if you have velocity assigned to something like filter cutoff?

Modulation mapping is extremely useful and powerful. It's such an underrated feature and very few sound designers seem to understand how useful it can be for creating presets that sound AND play great, at any keyboard ranges.

Mind you, this is not just about keyboard mapping. That was just one example. Here is another:

Say you have modulation wheel mapped to a bunch of things and at the middle of the range of your modwheel you suddenly get a large volume drop. How to fix it? Simply map the middle part of the modwheel range to the main output volume control of the synth. Problem solved. Smooth uninterrupted full modulation wheel range for the preset.

Don't like how an ADSR envelope sounds on one specific modulation target but like it on all others? Simply map the output of the ADSR that goes to the bad sounding target and fix it. Etc. etc. so many use cases.

[bmanic]

Very quick audio example I just created where I use modulation maps on multiple targets from the same exact ADSR. This is literally the same sound, no tweaks to filters or ADSR or anything, just different modulation mapping to shape a single ADSR to multiple targets.


Alchemy Example Mod Maps OFF

Alchemy Example Mod Maps ON

[pbr985]

I hear you. It all makes sense now. I wonder if the same could be achieved (or if there is a feature similar to mod map) in another synths like Massive X.

One of my favourite tricks is when I use reverb and or delay within Alchemy and instead of sidechaining the fx like you would normally do on a send, I modulate the mix amount of the fx within Alchemy with the source sound’s amplitude. So many creative options this way and IMHO it sounds better than doing it with a compressor.

[daily patcher]

Same with amplitude.. you already can have a super stable sound that isn't all over the place dynamically, without using any kind of compressor. Again, simply by using the modulation mapper and a few levels of modulation depth.

Could you please teach me how you do this, like with an arpeggiated bassline? Sounds very interesting.

You just map the keys/frequencies that are sticking out to the main output volume of the preset.

Say, if the note C4 is louder than all other notes in the preset (for instance due to the filter + resonance happening to trigger those frequencies more than others) then you just make sure C4 note is modulating the output volume down, while all other notes get no treatment.

I've been combing through older discussions about Alchemy because I'm going through an Alchemy 2 kick quite strongly right now, I find now that it has actually clicked for me I'm using it more and more over my other favorite synths. Thanks for all of your knowledge you've shared about how you use it! I had a question about this to check my own knowledge about Alchemy - what is your specific approach to making sure a single note frequency modulates the output volume down? I can see how you can reduce the gain of an individual frequency using the EQ, but I was curious if there was a way you know of where you can tap into specific notes as modulators.

[bmanic]

You first need to understand the modulation mapper. It simply takes an input value and then maps it to an output value. You have absolutely full control over the "transformation" of it.

Once you understand how the mod mapper works, then simply setup a mod mapper for the keyboard tracking modulation source, switch the X axis to 'key' snapping and there you go.. you can then use that mod mapper to map individual keys for whatever you want.



Example where I keyboard mapped C2, C3, C4 and C5 keys to the main volume so that these exact notes all play much quieter than any other keys. As can be seen to the left in the modulation panel where KeyFollow has it's Depth set to -100%, but it goes through ModMapper 1, thus modifying the modulation in such a way that only my specified keys get a decided fraction of -100% modulation on main output volume, C4 playing the quietest in this example (as it has the highest ModMap value).

If this example isn't enough to understand then you simply need to read more about how the modmapper functions. I won't go into details about that. It's what I consider "basic information" and thus outside the scope of me sitting down trying to explain it.

[daily patcher]

You first need to understand the modulation mapper. It simply takes an input value and then maps it to an output value. You have absolutely full control over the "transformation" of it.

Once you understand how the mod mapper works, then simply setup a mod mapper for the keyboard tracking modulation source, switch the X axis to 'key' snapping and there you go.. you can then use that mod mapper to map individual keys for whatever you want.



Example where I keyboard mapped C2, C3, C4 and C5 keys to the main volume so that these exact notes all play much quieter than any other keys. As can be seen to the left in the modulation panel where KeyFollow has it's Depth set to -100%, but it goes through ModMapper 1, thus modifying the modulation in such a way that only my specified keys get a decided fraction of -100% modulation on main output volume, C4 playing the quietest in this example (as it has the highest ModMap value).

If this example isn't enough to understand then you simply need to read more about how the modmapper functions. I won't go into details about that. It's what I consider "basic information" and thus outside the scope of me sitting down trying to explain it.

Holy sh!t! Thanks so much. That screenshot was perfect, I had to this point missed the Key snapping feature. That is gold. I completely see why you have been raving about the mod mapping, this unlocks whole new worlds

This might be a long shot but you wouldn't happen to have the patch from the ADHSR mod mapping example you shared would you? I would love to study your technique as it sounded way better after the mapping.

[bmanic]

And as this thread got raised from the dead, let me remind everybody of the awesomeness of Camel Audio Alchemy, aka Logic Pro Alchemy:


It is still one of the most uniquely capable synthesizers ever created. One of the best and easiest to use for experienced sound designers.

If it only had a bit more modern oscillator section (wavetables, better sounding analogue modeled oscillators), more modern zero delay analogue modeled filters and up to date effects, it would be the NR 1 synth in the world, soft or hardware.

It is the only synthesizer that puts the sound designer 100% fully in control of absolutely everything critical. There are no excuses when it comes to modulation. You can go pretty much as deep as you could ever possibly need and have FULL control of all volume levels at every stage, meaning there is literally zero excuses for presets that are unbalanced. The sound designer can "reign in" even the most unruly sound simply through clever targeted and keyboard tracked modulation assignments. The modulation source category called 'Note Property' alone is more comprehensive than pretty much any other synth out there.

You even have access to Envelope Followers within the damn synth which can be fed from a crazy amount of sources, both audio (including external sidechain!) and incoming modulation sources or even midi. It can work as a typical 'lag' processor but it can also be used to create your own crazy audio dynamics devices right within Alchemy itself. You can literally build your own feedback compressor if you want (though the feedback is not entirely reliable and can sound wonky).

Then there's the actual modulation slot system itself.

Instead of a typical mod matrix, instead every single knob in Alchemy has 10 first level modulation slots, each of these 10 slots can then be further modulated by 5 slots of 2nd order modulation and each of these 5 slots get one 3rd order slot (meaning: Modulation 1 <- Modulation 2 <- Modulation 3). And it ALL works polyphonically when the modulation destination and source are polyphonic. It's crazy powerful.

.. now combine all this power with the ability to precisely map everything exactly the way you want it. Any modulation signal can be completely transformed into some other "shape" or other output values, with proper snapping tools for both X and Y axis, making it a joy to use.

In short: One of the best synths out there and one of those things that makes the asking price for Logic Pro Audio so compelling.

[bmanic]

This might be a long shot but you wouldn't happen to have the patch from the ADHSR mod mapping example you shared would you? I would love to study your technique as it sounded way better after the mapping.

No sorry.. it was just a very quick basic example I threw together. Probably spent like max 5 minutes on it and just rendered it and discarded the session.

EDIT: Listening back to it I clearly am just manipulating some basic ranges of various settings, I've clearly manipulated the way an ADSR goes to the resonance, the filter cutoff and probably also some oscillator things like detuning and width.. keyboard also seems to track things differently and I wouldn't be surprised if I also mod mapped the velocity to various targets.

After all, it was just a demo trying to show how powerful modulation mapping can be.

[daily patcher]

This might be a long shot but you wouldn't happen to have the patch from the ADHSR mod mapping example you shared would you? I would love to study your technique as it sounded way better after the mapping.

No sorry.. it was just a very quick basic example I threw together. Probably spent like max 5 minutes on it and just rendered it and discarded the session.

EDIT: Listening back to it I clearly am just manipulating some basic ranges of various settings, I've clearly manipulated the way an ADSR goes to the resonance, the filter cutoff and probably also some oscillator things like detuning and width.. keyboard also seems to track things differently and I wouldn't be surprised if I also mod mapped the velocity to various targets.

After all, it was just a demo trying to show how powerful modulation mapping can be.

Awesome, well, I appreciate it and you sharing the general concepts regardless, you have given me enough to go down the sound design rabbit hole for a very long time with Alchemy. Your posts have put very nicely into words what I've been discovering after spending a lot more time in it - it really does give you an insane amount of depth for sound design.

And preach! I've had Logic but used Alchemy more or less as a romper for a long time as probably many others have (and its a pretty damn good one if that's all you want from it), now that I am starting to use Logic more than Bitwig these days and diving deeper into Alchemy it is very capable of fulfilling a lot of the tasks that I would have used Bitwig's modulation system to accomplish. In some ways I even appreciate it more as a single interface to work out of without having to muck around with a bunch of different devices and routings with modulation in Bitwig.

Here's hoping it gets more love from Apple.