The most underestimated synths...

[fluffy_little_something]

Beethoven? Totally overrated

[sjm]

I can't take a great dance track and play it on a kazoo. I'll be laughed off the Internet.

My money says it'll go viral within 24 hours.

[BlackWinny]

I agree with KX77FREE.

There are indeed people who appaers to be limited by the possibilites and features of their gear. Those who don't make music based on an idea a feeling or even ak melody. Instead they make musich within a tight frame set by a genre like, say EDM. So really it's not even music making. It's all abotu throwing in sonic effects.

This is not inovaztive music at all. It's limited to what what teh gear can spit out.

And so there's this hunt for new gear because they're in need of a never-before-heard sonic shit to throw into the gaps of their drum patterns.


They always ask: "What can we do with this new synth that we can't on our old?"

I ask: "What song can I compose with this new synth that I can't on my old?"

Myself, it is yet different: I compose mainly with a guitar and with a piano and a flute and a violin for the very great majority of the track. Then ONLY THEN... I search for sounds to improve the song or to totally replace the guitar or the piano or the flute or the violin and add only at the end all the discrete effects (morphs of sounds, flanger, phaser, etc.) which will enhance the result here and there.

So, my most important instruments are the guitar, the piano, the flutes and the violin. Then comes the moment of the choice of new sounds, the main soul of the song being already reached... by the harmony rules and the counterpoint rules.

Result: when I have to choose a synth, it is starting from the sound I search (each synth having its own soul) and so I don't care if it is 32-bit or 64-bit except if I use samples which will be CPU hogs.

[BlackWinny]

Sound matters...Whether we want to admit it or not.

I totally agree. Many of the songs from Vangelis, Toni Banks, etc. (examples among many others and in almost all the styles) would be very different with different sounds and arrangements.

There is a balance to do between the composing step and the arranging step. I'm just a bit sad that many current musicians underestimate... the composing step.

Your song is very good, Steven!

[sfd]

Sound is of interest. Yes.

But I think melody is way more imporant.

A melody by Mozart. What instrument? It doesn't matter.

Everybody knows that popcorn melody. Not so many really know or even care about the sound.

It's not because of the Minimoogs people know and remember Kraftwerk's "The Model". It's the melody. You can play it with a classical orchestra or with a roc klband. It's still that good song.

Sound can support your song. But it won't make the music for you.

Compsing should not be based on sound but on good melodies.

What I'm saying is that the latest super ultra fantstic synth won't make any music for you. We are, again, lead into the idea that with this or that new synth we'll revolutionise the sound and thereby make greater music. This is just as untrue today as it was in the early 80s.

Look at KVR. Everybody is talkign techknology. Nobody is talking music.

Everybody have a hundred plug-ins and sound libraries with zillion rimshots. What are you going to do with a zillion rimshots?

I'm not saying that there's no importance to sound. But it's really less imkporant then melody. A great souding guitar is of zero interest until you play somethign beautiful on it.

I agree with you to a point.

But you can't take a kazoo and play Beethoven's 9th with it and expect it to have the same impact on people as playing it using a full orchestra.

Yes, of course it starts with the melody and harmony. But it doesn't end there. And as important as those things are, you can ruin them with poor instrument arrangement, vocals, recording and any number of things.

If you think I'm kidding, I can make a cover of a song considered one of the greatest of all times and totally butcher it to the point where you can't listen to it.

What? You've never heard a singer so bad that you couldn't listen to the song anymore, even though it was an established "standard?"

Back in the day when I was so bad at doing this stuff, one agent was totally honest with me. He said, and I'll never forget these words"

"Steve, I honestly can't tell if your songs are any good or not because your performance and recordings are just terrible. And no publisher is going to be able to listen to these and tell if there is anything commercial in them."

Granted, it's just one man's opinion. But it sure supports all the rejection letters that I got from all the publishers I submitted to.

And then I started to improve with my playing and recording and I got my first song contract. And it was on a song that was generally believed to be a "hard sell" because it wasn't the kind of stuff that was popular at the time. But the production and everything about the song made it so that the publisher just couldn't pass on it.

Now of course this was all in the early 90s when you actually could rely on publishers to take your work. Today, everything is do it yourself because of the Internet so it doesn't matter how good my stuff is or isn't. I'm on my own. But the same rules still apply. I can't take a great dance track and play it on a kazoo. I'll be laughed off the Internet.

A great song will only get you so far without the proper presentation. Hell, I've had people tell me they can't listen to my music simply because I use Vocaloid. They can't get past that synthetic oriental sound. So how can you say it's just the song that matters?

Everything matters. And in today's day and age, maybe more so than back in the 60s when you had Tin Pan Alley and could play your song on an out of tune piano and still get a deal. Today, the production has to be near radio quality to begin with before a label will even bother talking to you.

I agree.

As I see it we don't disagree about anything. Really.


I feel there's a lot of peopel that fancy new gear becasue they're lead into the idea that it'll resul tin greater music.

But as, I think you said in an earlie rpost, one can make good stuff even with syntths 99% of people here at KVR rank as crap.

I'm arguin against the new-gear fetishism.

And I'm arguing against music making where the emphasis is more on the sounds , or sonic effects, then the melodies and harmonies. Where music becomes a timeline one just fill with sonic effects instead of musical compositions.

Of course it's of interest that oru compositions sounds good sonicaly. But if the content is shit it'll remain shit even if the package is made of gold.

[wagtunes]

@sfd

In other words, you can't polish a turd.

And that, I agree with 100%.

[BlackWinny]

@sfd

In other words, you can't polish a turd.

And that, I agree with 100%.

We are at least three.

[Numanoid]

Could not find a messiah thread so I post it here.
Completed messiah extra4 bank today. This is a gift to messiah owners. Available here:
http://memorymoon.com/downloads.htm

Thanks Gunnar

Why don't you make entries for the MemoryMoon plugins in the KVR database? Then everybody making patches for those synths would have a hub to put them in, and it would be easy to find them all in one place for the users.

[Numanoid]

In my case:

...
Rhino

and a lot more.

Interesting to see Rhino listed in the OP, from over 8 years ago.

I was playing with it just earlier today, and thought to myself that I hope BigTick is not the next dev to follow discodsp into "temp closed" oblivion

I mean, that GUI needs a major overhaul now to bring it up to speed on the hi-res monitors of today. But I doubt there will ever be a Rhino 3

[egbert101]

<delete>

[Numanoid]

The problem is the same with Phospor, the GUI is far too small on modern hi-res monitors. It brings back the feeling of key hole surgery trying to hit those tiny controllers with the mouse pointer.

I really do hope Audio Damage will think about updating it soon.

[sfd]

@sfd

In other words, you can't polish a turd.

And that, I agree with 100%.

Must be the first time ever at KVR when two people actually agreed about something

[sfd]

@sfd

In other words, you can't polish a turd.

And that, I agree with 100%.

We are at least three.

oh even 3 !
I shall call Guiness book of records !

[sjm]

@sfd

In other words, you can't polish a turd.

And that, I agree with 100%.

We are at least three.

oh even 3 !
I shall call Guiness book of records !

A dissenting voice joins the fray:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiJ9fy1qSFI

[BlackWinny]

@sfd

In other words, you can't polish a turd.

And that, I agree with 100%.

We are at least three.

oh even 3 !
I shall call Guiness book of records !

In the meanwhile (and much easier)... let's drink a Guinness !