KVR Audio

Nielzie · Post by **Nielzie** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:50 pm

So what about ElectraX? Has anyone proof of the fact that it's maliciously protected, like that crack group claimed about Gladiator years ago?

I guess someone "good on computers" could pretty easilly monitor changes to the registry and filesystem during installation, right?

Proof would be nice with these serious accusations..

Without proof I think it's bad pratice to post the nfo text of the Crack group here tbh

deleted · Post by **deleted** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:59 pm

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4damind · Post by **4damind** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:01 pm

jsp1979 wrote:What the heck is this talk of an embedded watermark? What does it even mean? That came out of nowhere in the original post and now it's being stated as fact?...this is how crap like this gets started.

From the tone2 website:
"Keyfile with serial number, watermark, no dongle required."
link

Afaik your serial number is coded in the phase of the audio signal. Every song you make with this plug-ins have a watermark.

deleted · Post by **deleted** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:06 pm

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Brittlestem · Post by **Brittlestem** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:09 pm

michi_mak wrote:
4damind wrote:...Every song you make with this plug-ins have a watermark...
so i can't see the point of this discussion.

Discussion? That's not what you're having, fanboi.

deleted · Post by **deleted** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:12 pm

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jsp1979 · Post by **jsp1979** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:17 pm

4damind wrote:
jsp1979 wrote:What the heck is this talk of an embedded watermark? What does it even mean? That came out of nowhere in the original post and now it's being stated as fact?...this is how crap like this gets started.
From the tone2 website:
"Keyfile with serial number, watermark, no dongle required."

Afaik your serial number is coded in the phase of the audio signal. Every song you make with this plug-ins have a watermark.

It says "Watermark". It says nothing about putting your serial number in the phase of the audio signal. I'll admit the phrase is ambiguous, but your theory sounds more like a conspiracy theory.

Where's the proof?

These sort of Tone2 threads remind me of the "I hear FL STudio colors the sound" threads we get every so often. Both types of threads have pretty much the same trajectory.

4damind · Post by **4damind** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:54 pm

michi_mak wrote:
4damind wrote:...Every song you make with this plug-ins have a watermark...
are you ashamed of your songs ??

I would never allow plug-ins or some other software to embed some private data in my songs! It's a different thing if I would own such a tool and _can_ use it eg. to embed a watermark to set some infos with the audio stream.

jsp1979 wrote:It says "Watermark". It says nothing about putting your serial number in the phase of the audio signal. I'll admit the phrase is ambiguous, but your theory sounds more like a conspiracy theory.

It's stated from the developer themselves (Markus Feil) here on KvR on a longer thread. You can search for this thread, where he wrote about coding of information in the audio phase, Also that soundbanks, presets can be watermarked etc.

jsp1979 · Post by **jsp1979** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:06 pm

Well, you learn something new everyday:

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... c&start=60

I'm not sure that it's a big deal either way (at least to me), but reasonable people may disagree on that point.

PietW. · Post by **PietW.** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:14 pm

4damind wrote:Installed the demo of ElectraX...
Holy sh*t, what a crippled demo version Some options like loading of samples are disabled, cannot save, works only some minutes and then it opens the web browser with the tone2 page Not the best demo to get new customers.

I think you should play with dolls as making music

bmrzycki · Post by **bmrzycki** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:16 pm

PietW. wrote:I think you should play with dolls as making music

Be scared, very scared: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vppAy8fq7Kw

contrary · Post by **contrary** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:24 pm

I bought , installed gladiator and have had Avria's firewall running at all times ; It has never attempted to phone home . I haven't had a single issue with the software ; none....( I guess that makes me a some sort of clone fan boy then , eh ??)

Do I have other software that brings up the Dev's home page if I click in the wrong place ; yup , I don't like it and am not sure what it is supposed to accomplish really; I suppose it is a matter of exasperation or desperation on the Dev's part. It is a nuisance but when stuff sounds as good as gladiator does , it's not a deal breaker for me .

I have no answers for the lack of respect for intellectual property that is endemic now days . Since I can't offer a solution , I also feel that I must temper my critical reactions to the Dev's who are trying everything to survive in this climant... It's so much easier to destroy than it is to build .....

4damind · Post by **4damind** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:26 pm

PietW. wrote:I think you should play with dolls as making music

Playing with dolls helps to make this demo more usable

It seems that you are a big expert (with dolls)

Nielzie · Post by **Nielzie** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:32 pm

4damind wrote:
I would never allow plug-ins or some other software to embed some private data in my songs!

The watermark in the personal download url and file is a string of numbers that probably only Tone2 can trace back to your private data from their customer database. So I don't think your private data is in the watermark at all.

Watermarking files bij developers is not unusual. KV331 Audio SynthMaster for instance uses this method too. One of the most Unintrusive forms of protection

And if the watermark is in this case put invisible/unhearable in the audio signal it's actually quite clever and probably pretty difficult to crack

I didn't know that was even possible.. And who says the data is rendered in your songs

However I do think your private data (name, e-mail) is encrypted in your personal keyfile that you use to unlock the full version. Like most keyfiles work to unlock software.

highkoo · Post by **highkoo** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:33 pm

I would wager that even when proofs are produced KVR's collective cognitave dissonance will judge them to be lacking. To me, it seems like theres a lot of people who refuse to look at this objectively because Tone2's products sound so damn good.
A company can simultaneously be talented, make good products, and not really respect their customers, and use grayhat tactics to protect whats theres. What I dont get is why it seems like no one wants to believe that.
All Devs are not beneficient angels, all warez groups are not demon liars.

A warez groups claims notwithstanding, there are proofs of at least the secret calls home. What motivation to you believe warez groups have to lie? FUD? Because they... are invested in competing companies...? Now theres a conspiracy theory.

There have been multiple first hand reports of this kind of 'protection' since the launch of Gladiator. Even after the back pedaling fanboi talking down watermarks, no one is starting to wonder?
4ir didnt even mention the watermarks, probably because they are admitted to exist in some form. So, is it just coincidence that there are accusations coming from regular ol' users of other gray tactics that are not being admitted to?
FWIW,
I dont own any Tone2 synths, but I do have Timeless and it has never given me a single lick of this kind of trouble. And its more than great.

I believe Tone2 is using various 'secret' tactics to protect whats theres, and I basically I think they should do whatever they can to protect it. I say good for them. But, its their job to keep their customers out of the field of battle, and in that they are failing.
So that is what it is, Tone2 is a feisty bunch, fine. But they are also failing at protecting their products! Any of them not cracked?
What is the point?
Furthermore,

Some guys wrote: ["Some guys" aren't allowed to "air" their manifesto at KVR, so don't post it.]

FUD, or just real talk?
How is it logical that FUD is necessary in a file that is included with the cracked version? They have already achieved maximum FUD, no? Or do we imagine they have some personal beef with Markus, but invented this elaborate story.. so.. that.. it could easily be shown bs?

How does this make sense?

Jack Johnsson wrote:Everyone who knows more on computers, knows exactly what it does.
..
In my 20 years computer experience i can say, it's all true. I have checked and tested it personally.

But... there are no watermarks.

Tone2 Gladiator2 - Sound with a watermark?