KOMPLETE 12 & 12 ULTIMATE Leak! Massive X Synthesizer, Kontakt 6...

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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UltimateOutsider
KVRian
753 posts since 5 Oct, 2009 from Portland, OR

Post Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:31 pm

All right, I just updated the Komplete Version Comparison worksheet with info from K12 and K12U. (It's a comparison of every Komplete release ever.)

I updated the legend to account for the new expansion packs and also to indicate that products with green backgrounds in the product column are scheduled for inclusion in the next Komplete release.

It's probably already been observed in the thread, but I noticed the Scarbee A200 and Clavinet/Pianet packages look like they're being discontinued and (perhaps) rolled into the new "Vintage Keys" product.

Also stings a bit seeing all those expansion packs I already own now being included in Komplete- but I bought them when I needed them. Maybe they'll end up on the Marketplace.

dreamkeeper
KVRian
835 posts since 24 Jan, 2006 from Universe #5346198720

Re: KOMPLETE 12 & 12 ULTIMATE Leak! Massive X Synthesizer, Kontakt 6...

Post Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:06 pm

jancivil wrote:But I don't even proceed from a necessary dichotomy of 'noise!' vs 'musical.'.
Neither do I. The way I look at it is, there's just different degrees of organisation. For some people, sounds need to be organised to a high degree - and often also in a certain way - before they give it the label 'musical'. But the frontiers between 'too chaotic' and 'enough organised' - and even 'too determined' (which is why I hate EDM :P ) - aren't fixed and are certainly not generally agreed upon.

Those transition points can even vary for the same person on different days. Sometimes I find a beautiful "melody" in a sound I made that seems chaotic at first glance - and get frustrated the next day, because I can't hear it any more. Sometimes it's the other way round. And still, it's those transition areas I get the most satisfaction out of, by exploring them. The music at the fringes so to say.

Anyway... FORM, BLOCKS and UNA CORDA were enough reasons for me to upgrade K10 to 11 - I usually don't do 1-version steps (though it might happen again, let's see what this MASSIVE X will be...).

FORM is much more than a sample mangler or noise generator. Depending on the sample (which get's re-synthesized!*), it can produce beautiful, unique and expressive sounds - and also a huge variety out of a single sample. Modulation system is pure genius. Personally I could use some more modulators, but you can do a lot with what's there.


*According to the description, it's based on a technique that was originally developed for vocal synthesis. It works really well, and without modification it's pretty close to the original. From there you can take it to a roundtrip through the universe...
The hole is deeper than the hum of its farts

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krabbencutter
KVRist
353 posts since 12 Jul, 2013

Re: KOMPLETE 12 & 12 ULTIMATE Leak! Massive X Synthesizer, Kontakt 6...

Post Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:16 pm

UltimateOutsider wrote:[...]
It's probably already been observed in the thread, but I noticed the Scarbee A200 and Clavinet/Pianet packages look like they're being discontinued and (perhaps) rolled into the new "Vintage Keys" product.
[...]
Hm, maybe it's related to Scarbee closing their webshop https://www.scarbee.com/blogs/news/the- ... ng-must-go
I build stuff for REAKTOR, just in case anyone cares :party:

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jancivil
KVRAF
16104 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: KOMPLETE 12 & 12 ULTIMATE Leak! Massive X Synthesizer, Kontakt 6...

Post Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:10 pm

dreamkeeper wrote:
jancivil wrote:But I don't even proceed from a necessary dichotomy of 'noise!' vs 'musical.'.
Neither do I. The way I look at it is, there's just different degrees of organisation. For some people, sounds need to be organised to a high degree - and often also in a certain way - before they give it the label 'musical'. But the frontiers between 'too chaotic' and 'enough organised' - and even 'too determined' (which is why I hate EDM :P ) - aren't fixed and are certainly not generally agreed upon.

Those transition points can even vary for the same person on different days. Sometimes I find a beautiful "melody" in a sound I made that seems chaotic at first glance - and get frustrated the next day, because I can't hear it any more. Sometimes it's the other way round. And still, it's those transition areas I get the most satisfaction out of, by exploring them. The music at the fringes so to say.
YES.
This is how I've been working for a while now. I make patches in Absynth that do, well it's three oscillators so it's doing three things typically. And the approach is a mixture of orchestral and chaotic. So I find in sculpting, in the more chaotic or opened up 'noise' say, the suggestion for or indicator for parts, piccolo or horn or a wind or strings sort_of instrument I'm going to create appears. And there are so many surprises, the wtf just happened factor, working with an open mind and just testing the possibilities. The interaction of components is so far beyond the sum of parts.
dreamkeeper wrote: Anyway... FORM, BLOCKS and UNA CORDA were enough reasons for me to upgrade K10 to 11 - I usually don't do 1-version steps (though it might happen again, let's see what this MASSIVE X will be...).

FORM is much more than a sample mangler or noise generator. Depending on the sample (which get's re-synthesized!*), it can produce beautiful, unique and expressive sounds - and also a huge variety out of a single sample. Modulation system is pure genius. Personally I could use some more modulators, but you can do a lot with what's there.


*According to the description, it's based on a technique that was originally developed for vocal synthesis. It works really well, and without modification it's pretty close to the original. From there you can take it to a roundtrip through the universe...
Damn, I wish I didn't have to make this choice. I want Form even more now and it makes so much more sense in a bundle economically. Synchron FX Strings is 25% off, Komplete is 50% off my upgrade. Can't do both and pay my rent and eat. I have to wait to see more what's in 12 I suppose. There is more likelihood of NI with another such deal than VSL with this one, which is still pretty new and once the promo price is over, sooner.

machinesworking
KVRian
1326 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Re: KOMPLETE 12 & 12 ULTIMATE Leak! Massive X Synthesizer, Kontakt 6...

Post Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:42 pm

dreamkeeper wrote:
v1o wrote:Unlike others here I don’t think Massive X is going after Omnishpere. There’s already Absynth for that.
Absynth and Omnisphere have as much in common as a F1 race car and a Rolls Royce...
Random guess for fun, maybe NI are combining and upgrading the code for Massive and Absynth to be one mega wavetable/sample mangling synth? In some ways they're both capable of doing wavetable stuff, but neither live up the potential of that format 100%.. Add in some sample mangling granular stuff and it's like Falcon without any pretension of being a sample library and developer playground style sample like Kontakt.

One can dream right? I'm looking at Symptohm, Granite, and Wavetable in Live and thinking how if they had Absynths envelopes and FX, Massives fatter output, it would make for a great synth!

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jancivil
KVRAF
16104 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: KOMPLETE 12 & 12 ULTIMATE Leak! Massive X Synthesizer, Kontakt 6...

Post Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:57 pm

I doubt Brian Clevinger is going to go for that.

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Hewitt Huntwork
KVRian
1147 posts since 2 Jun, 2003

Re: KOMPLETE 12 & 12 ULTIMATE Leak! Massive X Synthesizer, Kontakt 6...

Post Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:03 pm

UltimateOutsider wrote:All right, I just updated the Komplete Version Comparison worksheet with info from K12 and K12U. (It's a comparison of every Komplete release ever.)
That was awesome, thank you for sharing it.
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dreamkeeper
KVRian
835 posts since 24 Jan, 2006 from Universe #5346198720

Re: KOMPLETE 12 & 12 ULTIMATE Leak! Massive X Synthesizer, Kontakt 6...

Post Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:12 pm

jancivil wrote:This is how I've been working for a while now. I make patches in Absynth that do, well it's three oscillators so it's doing three things typically. And the approach is a mixture of orchestral and chaotic. So I find in sculpting, in the more chaotic or opened up 'noise' say, the suggestion for or indicator for parts, piccolo or horn or a wind or strings sort_of instrument I'm going to create appears. And there are so many surprises, the wtf just happened factor, working with an open mind and just testing the possibilities. The interaction of components is so far beyond the sum of parts.
Absolutely. Sometimes I think some people are too focused on "creating" something at all costs, instead of paying attention and listening. They try to force a tool into doing something that it wasn't designed for. I'm an architect, and a friend of mine at university used to say: "The design itself always knows best where it wants to go."

Absynth 2 was my first synth-love, and I started my musical adventure only at the tender age of 46 (I'm 60 now :cry: ). Without a background of musical education, I was somehow forced to follow Abby's guide - and she was a good teacher! A bit headstrong at times, but a real character... :clown: For a couple of years, Absynth was 'the only one' - and I firmly believed, it could do everything... Still to me the answer to many questions that people are asking here is: ABSYNTH
Damn, I wish I didn't have to make this choice. I want Form even more now and it makes so much more sense in a bundle economically. Synchron FX Strings is 25% off, Komplete is 50% off my upgrade. Can't do both and pay my rent and eat. I have to wait to see more what's in 12 I suppose. There is more likelihood of NI with another such deal than VSL with this one, which is still pretty new and once the promo price is over, sooner.
Eating is overrated anyway, but the rent could become a problem... :ud: Well, you could buy FORM at one of the 50% sales and sell it again, if you later decide to get K12. But you're certainly right about the likelihood of NI deals.
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dreamkeeper
KVRian
835 posts since 24 Jan, 2006 from Universe #5346198720

Re: KOMPLETE 12 & 12 ULTIMATE Leak! Massive X Synthesizer, Kontakt 6...

Post Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:26 pm

jancivil wrote:I doubt Brian Clevinger is going to go for that.
Yup! AFAIK he isn't working for NI, but only with them.

The NI folks aren't stupid, they certainly know what expectations and associations are linked to a particular product name. So, it might be some kind of extended MASSIVE - maybe as a new synth platform. REAKTOR may never be able to go multicore, so there could be the need for a new and more CPU-friendly (internal) framework. Wait and see...
The hole is deeper than the hum of its farts

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jancivil
KVRAF
16104 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: KOMPLETE 12 & 12 ULTIMATE Leak! Massive X Synthesizer, Kontakt 6...

Post Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:49 am

dreamkeeper wrote: "The design itself always knows best where it wants to go."
I do make decisions I stick with but the instrument tells me where we're going out of its personality and response to the landscape. So I take some time with the overall design. If the back or bottom layer is Absynth I'm going to spend some time with it first. Or I have something I have already done some work with and then tweak. I did very little back in 2005-6 but program Absynth. 2 & 3.
dreamkeeper wrote: Absynth 2 was my first synth-love, ...

For a couple of years, Absynth was 'the only one' - and I firmly believed, it could do everything... Still to me the answer to many questions that people are asking here is: ABSYNTH.
Absynth 2 was the first soft-synth I bought. For a number of years I didn't use another synth. It can be most things. I relied on it strictly, as a discipline. It can do for instance very fat basses, there's no reason with the things in it it can't, fat analog bass is not super-complex sound design. It scales so well just using envelopes with, again, three oscillators which can be totally different and with the panning quite separated. One thing I want from the mythical Absynth 6 is separate outs for the channels...

dreamkeeper
KVRian
835 posts since 24 Jan, 2006 from Universe #5346198720

Re: KOMPLETE 12 & 12 ULTIMATE Leak! Massive X Synthesizer, Kontakt 6...

Post Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:30 pm

jancivil wrote:I did very little back in 2005-6 but program Absynth. 2 & 3.
In 2004 I bought Absynth 1 very cheap 2nd hand, soon upgraded to v2 and dived down deep into it. Then v3 as soon as it was released, v4 too. Was on the beta team for v5, which was a fun experience. So yeah, quite a few years with Absynth under my belt.
Absynth 2 was the first soft-synth I bought. For a number of years I didn't use another synth. It can be most things.
Yes, it's extremely versatile. Some things must be done in different ways than other synths, but then work very well. One key-element for me is the waveshaper, which can make all the difference in sound and with a great variety too. With the right combo of settings, the WS can also be (ab-)used to introduce some or a lot of unpredictability, e.g. as a pseudo-random gate after a noisy source. Use that to 'ping' a comb and... oh I better stop before I get carried away - Absynth is such a beauty, even after all these years... :love:
One thing I want from the mythical Absynth 6 is separate outs for the channels...
My #1 request would be improved key-scaling. There wasn't much changed since v1 - only a few parameters can be key-scaled. And although the available scaling for individual notes is extremely flexible, it gets tedious if you want smooth transitions.

But there's no v6 on the horizon as far as I can see, and it may never come. IIRC Absynth was originally Brian's test-project for an even more ambitious synth monster he wanted to develop - but then it was so well received, that he stuck to it. At this point we can only speculate if the future will bring us Absynth 6 or a totally new work of genius. But I'm sure that Mr. Clevinger isn't just sitting there, twiddling thumbs...
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Kalamata Kid
KVRAF
3328 posts since 27 Jul, 2001 from Tarpon Springs, Florida, USA

Re: KOMPLETE 12 & 12 ULTIMATE Leak! Massive X Synthesizer, Kontakt 6...

Post Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:20 pm

^^^

In some interview after the release of Absynth 5 Mr. Clevinger mentioned that he is still working on Absynth.

Out of curiosity what has he done after the release of Absynth 5? Is he working on Massive X?

Oh, how I wish that Absynth 6 will be released soon. Too bad wishing does not change reality.
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dreamkeeper
KVRian
835 posts since 24 Jan, 2006 from Universe #5346198720

Re: KOMPLETE 12 & 12 ULTIMATE Leak! Massive X Synthesizer, Kontakt 6...

Post Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:30 pm

Kalamata Kid wrote:^^^

In some interview after the release of Absynth 5 Mr. Clevinger mentioned that he is still working on Absynth.
Yes, I know. Doesn't tell us though how it was meant - if it will be actually a v6 or something new, based on Absynth.
Out of curiosity what has he done after the release of Absynth 5? Is he working on Massive X?
I doubt it, Massive is a completely different* concept. Don't think that Brian would have been interested to build on that. And even if it was a blend of both worlds, they'd probably chosen a different name.

* Hm, on 2nd thought, maybe not that different after all... both are semi-modular and well suited for experimental stuff - even if Massive looks much simpler than Absynth on the surface. Oh well, I don't know - we'll see it soon, I guess.
Too bad wishing does not change reality.
Well, looking at the wishes of some people in the world, that's a good thing. :wink:
The hole is deeper than the hum of its farts

TaylorSN
KVRer
9 posts since 5 Aug, 2017

Re: KOMPLETE 12 & 12 ULTIMATE Leak! Massive X Synthesizer, Kontakt 6...

Post Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:00 am

Hey, NI just announced new expansion pack, GLOBAL SHAKE, which wasn’t actually listed in the recent leak. Either this pack won’t be included in the 12th update or... there’s even more room for speculation about it’s contents.

noiseboyuk
KVRAF
2456 posts since 25 Jan, 2007

Re: KOMPLETE 12 & 12 ULTIMATE Leak! Massive X Synthesizer, Kontakt 6...

Post Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:12 pm

TaylorSN wrote:Hey, NI just announced new expansion pack, GLOBAL SHAKE, which wasn’t actually listed in the recent leak. Either this pack won’t be included in the 12th update or... there’s even more room for speculation about it’s contents.
I'm pretty sure there have been other expansions too not listed in the leak. My guess - I haven't looked into this - is that the already-existing Maschine-originated expansions will be included, but not all the newest ones.
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