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hamayame
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11 posts since 18 Jan, 2017

Postby hamayame; Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:50 pm Re: Fire your singers folks, Vocaloid 5 is here!

na4a4a wrote:To clarify a bit, Vocaloid was originally English only actually. So English is actually closer to the "native" language. That being said, saying software that uses phonemes has a native language is really asinine to say the least...


As far as I know, Vocaloid was made from a genius Japanese programmer-producer who literally finding difficulty on having a human singer to sing his song.
If you'll be kind enough to enlighten me.. I would love to know the source of your statement.

na4a4a wrote:Also I love how you post the absolute worst example on English, Miku English is an absolute abomination created only to make weebs buy the same cute voice more. :tu:


IMO that's the best English Vocaloid song that I could find on the internet. Please enlighten me again of the song that you think is a good example of English Vocaloid song.

As for the Miku, I could agree to a certain degree since the voice actress is really trying her best to do english because of her native language (Japanese) is literally on the opposite of spectrum language she could ever talk to.. But hey, it's
WinterdrivE
KVRer
 
9 posts since 23 Nov, 2014

Postby WinterdrivE; Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:05 pm Re: Fire your singers folks, Vocaloid 5 is here!

VOCALOID was developed by the Music Technology Group at the Pompeu Fabra University in Barcelona, Spain, led by Xavier Serra and Jordi Bonada:
https://www.coursera.org/lecture/audio- ... -upf-AnNZb (Video at 5:41)
https://www.upf.edu/web/mtg/technologies-licensing
https://www.upf.edu/web/mtg/spinoffs-in ... l-partners (see Voctro labs)
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0Mp1w ... HHhixEqmJg
Follow me on Twitter! @Winter_drivE
Follow me on soundcloud! https://soundcloud.com/winterdrive
hamayame
KVRer
 
11 posts since 18 Jan, 2017

Postby hamayame; Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:10 pm Re: Fire your singers folks, Vocaloid 5 is here!

Astralv wrote:Will it work with Cakewalk by BandLab? (former Sonar)? I once was considering to buy it and their tech support told me that it will not work with Sonar. Is it freestanding and VST? Is there video of it working inside the DAW? Thank you.


Vocaloid itself is a standalone software, but there's a version of only Cubase VST plugin.

If you bought a voice library from Crypton, there's a VST Plugin called Piapro Studio which they provide along side the library that you can use in DAW (Crypton doesn't openly share this plugin just because you have a Vocaloid voice library, you have to bought Crypton's voice library to get it). I do have this VST since I bought Hatsune Miku V4x (a Crypton Japanese-English voice library).

I haven't try Piapro Studio on Cakewalk, I could try it for you if you interested.

I recommend Vocaloid software if you need parameter flexibility on your composing your vocal tracks or should I say that your main and only vocal of the song is Vocaloid. Piapro Studio just provide you the main parameter and basic tweaking (which is great if you just making a demo to be sung with human singer).
na4a4a
KVRer
 
2 posts since 12 Jul, 2018

Postby na4a4a; Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:13 pm Re: Fire your singers folks, Vocaloid 5 is here!

hamayame wrote://snip//


Sure, Vocaloid was developed for Yamaha by the Music Technology Group of UPF in Barcelona, Spain. The first voices to be released for the software were english, and even the japanese voices had an english interface before the community translated it itself.

Gumi is an eastern voice with an unfamiliar accent that western producers won't want to work with, that's why she's not a good example.
The best example I could honestly find of a more american-ish vocal is this. https://soundcloud.com/vocaloid_yamaha/ ... ation-song
Though definitely still not anywhere near good enough.

The problem with virtual instruments is that no matter how much you edit them to sound as realistic as possible, it's still not be quite there. The same holds true for artificial vocals, the difference being that being a voice alters your perception of flaws.
You try as hard as possible to make it sound more natural when people are already accustomed to a heavily produced and altered digital vocal anyways.

Doesn't help that most Vocaloids sound like they were recorded on a $10 usb mic.

Vocaloid 5 also works as a VSTi and AU plugin for any DAW now, not just Cubase (thank god).
hamayame
KVRer
 
11 posts since 18 Jan, 2017

Postby hamayame; Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:24 pm Re: Fire your singers folks, Vocaloid 5 is here!

WinterdrivE wrote:VOCALOID was developed by the Music Technology Group at the Pompeu Fabra University in Barcelona, Spain, led by Xavier Serra and Jordi Bonada:
https://www.coursera.org/lecture/audio- ... -upf-AnNZb (Video at 5:41)
https://www.upf.edu/web/mtg/technologies-licensing
https://www.upf.edu/web/mtg/spinoffs-in ... l-partners (see Voctro labs)


Ah, thank you for the info you provide! :)
I remember that the core of Vocaloid was developed by Yamaha itself from a research paper from this Japanese genius programmer-producer, so this info is quite refreshing to know..

EDITED : the example song links works now
hamayame
KVRer
 
11 posts since 18 Jan, 2017

Postby hamayame; Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:41 pm Re: Fire your singers folks, Vocaloid 5 is here!

na4a4a wrote:
hamayame wrote://snip//


The best example I could honestly find of a more american-ish vocal is this. https://soundcloud.com/vocaloid_yamaha/ ... ation-song
Though definitely still not anywhere near good enough.


Ah, now I know why you telling me that my example is the worst :D
The example that I provide was from a non native English speaker voice library and you provide the example from a native English speaker voice library.

The voice library on my example song is quite impressing for that amount of clarity (Hatsune Miku provided from Japanese voice actress which is the language is in different spectrum from English). I mainly produce using the Japanese one, so my English talking sense maybe didn't quite there to find the English side of this library is not good, but I find it's a huge improvement from the previous version :)
Dr.Future
KVRist
 
54 posts since 15 Sep, 2001, from Germany

Postby Dr.Future; Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:51 pm Re: Fire your singers folks, Vocaloid 5 is here!

So @wagtunes, you seem to be very familiar with Vocaloid. What is this Cubase Editor which is included with V5?
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wagtunes
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12645 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Postby wagtunes; Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:56 am Re: Fire your singers folks, Vocaloid 5 is here!

Dr.Future wrote:So @wagtunes, you seem to be very familiar with Vocaloid. What is this Cubase Editor which is included with V5?


I don't have V5 yet. But the Cubase editor is nothing more than just a VST version of Vocaloid. Prior to V4 Cubase version, the only way to use Vocaloid was standalone, which is why I avoided it up to then.

The Cubase Editor works like any other VST. The steps are simple.

Step 1 - Load Vocaloid VST into your DAW like you would any other VST. A little rectangular box will then pop up along side the track saying Vocaloid. You can actually close this box. It's not needed.

Step 2 - On your timeline, where the Vocaloid track is, set your start and end points and double click inside the area. This will create a MIDI track on that line.

Step 3 - Double click inside the MIDI track and that will bring you to your piano roll.

Step 4 - Go up to the menu where it says MIDI and their should be an option to open Vocaloid Editor. Click on that. You'll then get a message warning you that you're going to be creating a Vocaloid track and that it can't be undone. Click OK.

You're now inside the editor and can start entering your notes and words.

Now with V5 it says you can play notes real time and you probably can. But unless you have perfect timing when playing, it's probably going to be a mess and you'll have to quantize anyway. Step entering notes may take longer but it's more precise.

Vocaloid is really not that hard to work with once you get used to it. The hard part is making the phrasing sound as human as possible. That's where lots of practice comes in.

I would be lost without this software and would probably never write another song again requiring vocals.
teacue
KVRian
 
509 posts since 22 Jun, 2003, from Germany

Postby teacue; Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:20 am Re: Fire your singers folks, Vocaloid 5 is here!

hamayame wrote:Vocaloid itself is a standalone software, but there's a version of only Cubase VST plugin.

But as I previously mentioned Vocaloid 5 is now VSTi and AU

See here videos showing how to use Vocaloid 5 in Cubase, Logic Pro X and Ableton Live:
http://www.vocaloid.com/en/learn/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zA-iHQARtHQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYp3_8TRof0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYayBL1ke14
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wagtunes
KVRAF
 
12645 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Postby wagtunes; Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:30 am Re: Fire your singers folks, Vocaloid 5 is here!

teacue wrote:
hamayame wrote:Vocaloid itself is a standalone software, but there's a version of only Cubase VST plugin.

But as I previously mentioned Vocaloid 5 is now VSTi and AU

See here videos showing how to use Vocaloid 5 in Cubase, Logic Pro X and Ableton Live:
http://www.vocaloid.com/en/learn/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zA-iHQARtHQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYp3_8TRof0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYayBL1ke14


Yes, it was great that they finally made this VST compatible for all hosts. Major improvement and, I am sure, will attract more users.

They have come a long way.
mevla
KVRian
 
1467 posts since 3 Nov, 2015

Postby mevla; Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:34 am Re: Fire your singers folks, Vocaloid 5 is here!

Do they provide any demo to try ? Does this work in Bitwig ?
teacue
KVRian
 
509 posts since 22 Jun, 2003, from Germany

Postby teacue; Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:00 am Re: Fire your singers folks, Vocaloid 5 is here!

mevla wrote:Do they provide any demo to try ?

I can't remember having ever seen any demo coming from Yamaha Vocaloid, but I may be false.
Vocaloid demos were provided by other Vocaloid company like Crypton and others.
But these company made their own Vocaloid Editor so this has nothing to do with Yamaha products.
And yes Vocaloid is a very complex world in itself with very different companies!
The most well known Vocaloids like Miku for example are not from Yamaha.

Considering that they made really very big changes (VSTi and AU, considerably reducing their prices) one may speculate that at some point in the future they will consider demos , but this is pure specualtion.

mevla wrote: Does this work in Bitwig ?

As Vocaloid 5 is now VSTi and AU compatible I can't imagine that it will not work on Bitwig.
If you want to be sure you may directly ask at Yamaha:
http://www.vocaloid.com/en/
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wagtunes
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12645 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Postby wagtunes; Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:24 am Re: Fire your singers folks, Vocaloid 5 is here!

Yamaha has never offered a demo of the Vocaloid engine. I wrote and asked before getting V4 expressing my concern about buying it and it not working and they said to me "Oh don't worry, it'll work" at which I held my breath and prayed. I was so desperate to get something that could do vocals that I took a chance.

Best decision, music wise, that I've ever made.
mevla
KVRian
 
1467 posts since 3 Nov, 2015

Postby mevla; Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:01 am Re: Fire your singers folks, Vocaloid 5 is here!

Thanks for the replies. There's an additional layer in my case as I run Linux. A lot of Windows plugins work using the wine-staging/linvst bridge. The ones that do not are marginal I'd say, except for the ones using a 'creative' copy protection scheme implemented using 3rd party run-time apps of various kinds. In which case I do not insist and forget about them.

If Yahama is saying there that there should be no problems in running Vocaloid in Windows, then it might mean that the coding and library usage is clean.... which brings up the next question:

What kind of copy protection Vocaloid software is using ?
teacue
KVRian
 
509 posts since 22 Jun, 2003, from Germany

Postby teacue; Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:47 am Re: Fire your singers folks, Vocaloid 5 is here!

BTW for anyone interested the well known Vocaloid forum VocaloidOtaku.net has been closed.
This one is an alternative:
https://vocaverse.network/
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