Are filters what make the sound of a synth stand out from the crowd?

[Delta Sign]

Just to add to the digital oscillators vs analog filters thing from a sound nerd perspective instead of a developer perspective:

Urs is absolutely right, something like a supersaw doesn't really work well with filters that have a lot of character, at least not if you are going for a classic supersaw sound. One of the main reasons is the same reason why guitar players tend to play power chords (just the root and the fifth) instead of full chords through distortion: Inter-modulation distortion.
Stable intervals like octaves and fifths don't generate much inter-modulation distortion because of their simple ratio (2:1 for an octave and 3:2 for a fifth), while multiple oscillators detuned by just a few cent would't generate a lot of really complex and therefore unstable ratios.
There is of course more at play here, like how the non-linearity of a filter reacts to a complex beating pattern of a sound like a supersaw.

Regarding the non-VA waveforms through "analog" filters thing:
I think it can sound great, because something like wavetables or samples give the filter much more to work with. Wavetables and samples also tend to have a much less linear frequency distribution, while classic analog waveforms are much more basic in that regard. There is nothing like crunchy samples send through a good filter, but that's getting subjective, I suppose

[chk071]

Character doesn't only come from saturation. E.g., Waldorf's synths are well known for their "blissful" and character full filters, and they don't have any saturation going on. I'd even say that saturation is only a small factor in the character of a synth.

[BONES]

I dunno, I hear plenty of saturation in both my Rocket and Pulse 2's filters. It's what gives them that meaty cut through in a mix. It's not there as a parameter, simply a characteristic of the filter itself.

Look, he's misleading people - continuously. Voltage bleed & co. took years of hard work to remove from instruments. This is the lowest of low quality. And when this is transferred to digital, becomes the pinnacle of achievement? How?

I read exactly the same post as you I did not get even the slightest sense that he was touting anything as "the pinnacle of achievement. All he was doing was illustrating an answer to a question someone had asked about what makes it such a challenge. Every word, phrase and sentence was entirely appropriate, informative and at no time made any reference to how well Urs himself had or had not managed to achieve a result. All of that is extrapolation on your part, based on a clear and completely unjustified bias.

I said aggressively - he's beyond criticism. Get it?

Why would he be beyond criticism? I don't find anything particularly wonderful about any of his synths. They're OK but too expensive, I can get equally useful plugins for a lot less money. I'd criticise the hell out of them if it was appropriate to the topic at hand, and have done so in the past. But what you call "criticism" reads like a personal vendetta. Did he steal your girlfriend or something?

[vurt]

[chk071]

I dunno, I hear plenty of saturation in both my Rocket and Pulse 2's filters.

Ok, I should have said their VA synths.

[Rik]

If I would build a synth, I would implement an interpolation of presets. That means a single expression like aftertouch could control all parameters at once! Best as a x/y pad. Each corner has one static preset and I move around in the sound with my LinnStrument via aftertouch and the tilt of my finger...

That sounds like a Roli seaboard + cypher2

[djnro666]

Plenty of saturation algorithms in Waldorf Largo... There was also a way to overdrive the filter in my micro q if I remember correctly.

[djnro666]

Don't remember much about the Microwave II I had though...

[BONES]

Rocket also has a BOOST button that I think works on the filter but there is plenty of saturation without it.

[SMH]

Convincing analog filter model is a MUST and sometimes you don't even need oscillators!! (Tho it has great oscillators too. )

https://soundcloud.com/smh2600/admiral- ... b-on-strat

[BONES]

A "MUST" for what? It's certainly not needed for a great synth strings patch.

EDIT: I just had a chance to listen to the Soundcloud thing and I could make that with any krappy old VSTi. There is nothing at all that requires anything approaching an analogue recreation or even a half-decent digital filter.

[SMH]

[layzer]

Convincing analog filter model is a MUST and sometimes you don't even need oscillators!! (Tho it has great oscillators too. )

https://soundcloud.com/smh2600/admiral- ... b-on-strat

lol, why do people insist on posting examples that present the audio using mediocre mastering? dont they realize it makes the synth sound like any of the thousands of old synthedit or flowstone synths out there?

[cron]

You could create a lot of patches without a Filter but try making one without any Oscillators (or sound generation elements for the pedantic).

Hehehe, if the filters are self-oscillating you can still do excellent Theremin-patches.

Interesting that you mention this, because advancements in filter modelling have made one of my favourite sounds (self oscillating filter, with a touch of noise to add 'roughness' to the tone) more difficult to pull off over the years. Modern software filters make the pitch of the self-osc much more sensitive to very low input levels, so that 'touch of noise' can throw the result far out. I've adapted by keeping input levels constant and using the noise to modulate the cutoff instead of passing it through the filter, but I've never been able to recreate the sound quite like it was, specifically the way the tone 'softened' and became more chime-like the further you moved up the keyboard. I'm sure it can be done in more skilled hands, of course.

[Vertion]

Partials, phases, artifacts (reactive models/noise), and waveform movement/animation.

If the sound coming out of one synth matches another sample per sample, and another is judged better on the ears, then it's subconscious bias that defines the experience.. similar to grover and the excellent idea video.

Filters are typically used in subtractive synthesis and noise shaping synthesis. Otherwise its used to change up the signal. Phase distortion runs opposite of subtractive, distorting a sine wave to add partials, which requires only a sinc filter and decimation to avoid aliasing.

Urs is one of the synthlords of this market, best not to get on his bad side. Otherwise, you might find a preset named after you in a humorous way on his next release/upgrade.