Will NKS go the distance?

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
rlared
KVRist
393 posts since 1 Aug, 2016

Post Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:03 pm

This is purely speculative. I'm sure we will get someone saying "who cares, go make music" before Page 2. But just interested to hear opinions.

I suspect NKS (Native Kontrol Standard) will fade into oblivion for 3rd parties in the next 5 years. I wouldn't be shocked if even NI abandons it as well. This is based on:

3rd Party Pain in the Ass Factor: DAW vendors have to maintain the compatibility over time, plugin vendors have to as well. Has adoption plateaued?

Unclear Strategy: What is their message? Work only with your keyboard? Keyboard and DAW? Machine? Use their instruments or 3rd party ones? Komplete Kontrol is an effects host also?

Competition: Other products from Arturia, AKAI, etc are fragmenting the segment.

I personally found it a "nice to have" but I prefer other non-NKS synths. At this point I no longer go for the "totally integrated" hardware solutions because I've never found one that works for me.

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Dillinger
KVRist
217 posts since 2 Apr, 2016

Re: Will NKS go the distance?

Post Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:43 pm

Good points. I think a standard is good, just not dictated by one company but rather a committee. Cooperation not competition, in this scenario, benefits.

Will it go the distance? Nah, probably not. The distance is far.

Local Man
KVRist
489 posts since 31 May, 2017

Re: Will NKS go the distance?

Post Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:05 pm

I wouldn't doubt it. I bought a Komplete Kontrol MK2 keyboard late last year and though I think it's a nice keyboard in general, I find that I hardly every use the komplete kontrol plugin. I just end up loading NKS compatable instruments directly and quickly assign midi CCs whenever I want to use the knobs on it.
I think it's a good idea that has so far been poorly implemented.
None of their keyboards come with more than 8 knobs, so you're still doing a lot of menu diving and on the fly assigning if you want to do any significant work. At that point the mouse is just easier.
The way most things are mapped by default usually doesn't make much sense (even for NI's own instruments).
And at the end of the day, having to load a shell plugin before loading the actual plugin you want to use is just annoying after awhile.
And don't get me started about the way effects are implemented. It's completely useless.
The one thing it is very good for is browsing factory patches (but not user patches).

rlared
KVRist
393 posts since 1 Aug, 2016

Re: Will NKS go the distance?

Post Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:28 pm

Local Man wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:05 pm
I wouldn't doubt it. I bought a Komplete Kontrol MK2 keyboard late last year and though I think it's a nice keyboard in general, I find that I hardly every use the komplete kontrol plugin. I just end up loading NKS compatable instruments directly and quickly assign midi CCs whenever I want to use the knobs on it.
I think it's a good idea that has so far been poorly implemented.
None of their keyboards come with more than 8 knobs, so you're still doing a lot of menu diving and on the fly assigning if you want to do any significant work. At that point the mouse is just easier.
The way most things are mapped by default usually doesn't make much sense (even for NI's own instruments).
And at the end of the day, having to load a shell plugin before loading the actual plugin you want to use is just annoying after awhile.
And don't get me started about the way effects are implemented. It's completely useless.
The one thing it is very good for is browsing factory patches (but not user patches).
My experience is pretty much exactly the same. At least it's still a nice controller though :)

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Daru925
KVRist
230 posts since 20 Mar, 2015 from Nerima, Tokyo

Re: Will NKS go the distance?

Post Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:45 pm

Who cares? Go make music before page 2!

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Orbit-50
KVRAF
2280 posts since 29 Jun, 2005 from La La Land

Re: Will NKS go the distance?

Post Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:46 pm

rlared wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:03 pm
..."nice to have" but I prefer other non-NKS synths.
Notice the fact that there are many, many of those. Many developers do not seem to be on board with this. They are a very successful company, with dynamite products, but NKS is really not that great at all. It's been out for a good while and it's not even 1/2 as good as Kore 2 was in its infancy. Took me less than 3 minutes to uninstall it, and this is coming from a guy who really wants something like this.
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
Alienware i7 R3 loaded with billions of DAWS and plugins.

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rod_zero
KVRAF
3008 posts since 28 Jan, 2011 from MEXICO

Re: Will NKS go the distance?

Post Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:59 pm

The idea is good and they way to advance auto mapping, but the failure are the controllers, 8 knobs just doesn't cut it, you are wasting all those NKS templates for merely 8 knobs

When they put 32 knobs then we can talk.
dedication to flying

rlared
KVRist
393 posts since 1 Aug, 2016

Re: Will NKS go the distance?

Post Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:45 pm

Daru925 wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:45 pm
Who cares? Go make music before page 2!
:hihi:

faxinadu
KVRian
500 posts since 19 Oct, 2006 from Israel

Re: Will NKS go the distance?

Post Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:32 pm

Our next synth is an NKS product. It might not be the second coming of sliced bread, but its neat and cool in many ways. As a developer, working with NI/NKS has additional advantages such as the fact that proper NKS devices built with NI platforms (Reaktor/Kontakt) are encoded to work on the Player. I get what you guys are saying about 8 knobs, but to me this is besides the point, the knobs are not there (in theory) so you can edit the whole synth, they are there to provide quick access for automations.

Elektronisch
KVRAF
3149 posts since 3 Feb, 2010

Re: Will NKS go the distance?

Post Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:15 pm

No it will not fade away, simply because alot of developers are already getting in to NKS format and its geared to NI products. And NI has a huge userbase already. As a matter of fact the plugin itself is very handy because of presentation for wich sometimes its just easier to use to access some of Kontakt and Reaktor libraries and even some plugins. Rob papens plugins GUIs are so uncomfortable to use and stuttery its just easier to load NKS, init them and use in shell.

Whole Komplete kontrol is also dedicated more towards Komplete/NI users and to me as a komplete user its a missing link that was needed. Basicly its like a solution for K products for those who "omnisphere" browsing expierience with added benefits.

Topcheese
KVRist
231 posts since 12 Nov, 2017

Re: Will NKS go the distance?

Post Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:14 pm

It's really hard to say because NI is a really sharp company. I think you only have to look at what Microsoft has done with Visual Studio to maybe get a hint. The goal has always been to get AND keep users, so that means some times doing whatever it takes.

NI giving away Komplet Start is a step in that direction. At every opportunity they give non-users and pirates a free chance to become a registered user. At each and every step they're trying to get AND keep new users.

In my not-an-expert opinion I think it's highly probable seeing how they roll. I can't see NI going down without a good fight. I'm also pretty sure they'll do whatever it takes to keep people using their fine product line.

Nothing is guaranteed, and something better may come along, but until then they are hustlers in the good sense. I did the same thing and bought into them, and that's when I really began to see the real cracks in the system.

I have the Maschine Jam, MK3, and MK2 keyboard, and I'm pretty much happy with them, but I find I really don't like being locked into the NKS "standard." I've only had them a few months, so I'm also still learning. I think it's better than the setup I originally had with my Alesis VX49 and VIP.

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Tj Shredder
KVRAF
2569 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Re: Will NKS go the distance?

Post Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:28 pm

The idea, that you load a sound which knows what plug-in to fire up does make a lot of sense. It boils down to „is it an open standard?“...
To load sounds directly is implemented for example in Bitwig already, no need to have an extra layer. But if we could import NKS prepared sounds into other environments like Bitwig or VIP, then this starts to make sense and will survive. A standard has to be independant of code or hardware!

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aMUSEd
KVRAF
30858 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net

Re: Will NKS go the distance?

Post Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:39 pm

It had better do.

faxinadu
KVRian
500 posts since 19 Oct, 2006 from Israel

Re: Will NKS go the distance?

Post Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:13 am

Tj Shredder wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:28 pm
A standard has to be independant of code or hardware!
That's the thing though. It is not intended to be a standard outside of NI environment, it is intended to be a standard within NI environment, totally different purpose and agenda/goals.

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aMUSEd
KVRAF
30858 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net

Re: Will NKS go the distance?

Post Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:18 am

It's not a standard, it's just a set of tools for integrating plugins with NI hardware

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