Tone2 Warlock (synthesizer): early-access available now!

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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KVRAF
3907 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Post Sun Feb 21, 2021 2:48 pm

Markus Krause wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:18 am
If you don't like the sound and the concept don't buy it. There are enough other alternatives available
I was just questioning the drive and why it's positioned in the filter section while instead it affects the amp output .
Why so butthurt ? :roll:
.
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

KVRAF
2765 posts since 25 Mar, 2016 from Seattle

Post Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:34 pm

Here they come!

It's the Plugin Doctors....

Demanding attention by trying to find problems with any little thing.. " but it aliases, I can see it","but it looks like it sounds wrong"...
Blah blah blah, yeah yeah yeah... Yawn yawn yawn...Write some music maybe?

User avatar
KVRAF
3907 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Post Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:22 pm

simmo75 wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:34 pm
Here they come!

It's the Plugin Doctors....

Demanding attention by trying to find problems with any little thing.. " but it aliases, I can see it","but it looks like it sounds wrong"...
Blah blah blah, yeah yeah yeah... Yawn yawn yawn...Write some music maybe?
Gathering of the snowflakes :lol:
For real , this not about demanding attention , I think tone 2 plugins are are excellent .
It’s just that the drive knob should not be located in the filter section because it does not apply drive to the filter input but to the amp output in general.
But I guess you just don’t question anything , do you ?
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

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KVRAF
5638 posts since 9 Jan, 2003 from Saint Louis MO

Post Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:42 pm

gentleclockdivider wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:11 am
Notice how the drive affects the shape of the decaying amp envelope , and is just a post amp drive and not filter drive
"Filter drive" is not something exotic, it's just a drive stage in front of a filter. Assuming you are going VCO -> VCA -> VCF, any drive stage between the VCA and VCF is both "post amp drive" and "filter drive."

If you use the sawtooth oscillator shape (no filter, or LPF with the cutoff maxed and no resonance) and look at it on a scope, with drive at minimum and then maximum. You'll see that the drive stage pulls higher values down lower than moderate values:

Image

If you apply that curve to a decay envelope, you'll have a similar effect: it will rise a little before it flattens out and then falls, just like you saw.


Pick a sine oscillator, use an LPF or BPF, and play with the drive and you'll hear that the drive absolutely is in front of the filter, not after it. Bypassing the filter simply doesn't bypass the drive too, that's all.

KVRAF
2765 posts since 25 Mar, 2016 from Seattle

Post Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:25 pm

gentleclockdivider wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:22 pm
simmo75 wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:34 pm
Here they come!

It's the Plugin Doctors....

Demanding attention by trying to find problems with any little thing.. " but it aliases, I can see it","but it looks like it sounds wrong"...
Blah blah blah, yeah yeah yeah... Yawn yawn yawn...Write some music maybe?
Gathering of the snowflakes :lol:
For real , this not about demanding attention , I think tone 2 plugins are are excellent .
It’s just that the drive knob should not be located in the filter section because it does not apply drive to the filter input but to the amp output in general.
But I guess you just don’t question anything , do you ?
You know what mate, if I like something then generally no, I won’t question whether or not it’s 100% perfect. I guess you’re more anally retentive than most!
Enjoy your probing, I’ll enjoy writing music :hug:

User avatar
KVRAF
14875 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Post Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:12 pm

MorpherX wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 12:19 pm
You have not understood what I wrote !

The UserA-C banks are useless for changing projects with always changing presets.
You can not save .fxb files and named .t2b files are not stored in custom bank only one presets.
Nearly every DAW has a integraded browser, there you could simply exchange presets with Drag/Drop.
I never use the browser in any DAW I own so Drag/Drop would be useless to me.

Whatever, I'm using multiple instances of Warlock in several projects and have no trouble whatsoever with the current patch handling system.

But good luck with your feature request. Personally I hope Markus spends his time on something else. :shrug:
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

User avatar
KVRAF
14875 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Post Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:17 pm

If you spend most of your time seeking perfection you'll spend the rest of your time finding disappointment.
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

User avatar
KVRAF
3907 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Post Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:31 am

foosnark wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:42 pm
gentleclockdivider wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:11 am
Notice how the drive affects the shape of the decaying amp envelope , and is just a post amp drive and not filter drive
"Filter drive" is not something exotic, it's just a drive stage in front of a filter. Assuming you are going VCO -> VCA -> VCF, any drive stage between the VCA and VCF is both "post amp drive" and "filter drive."

If you use the sawtooth oscillator shape (no filter, or LPF with the cutoff maxed and no resonance) and look at it on a scope, with drive at minimum and then maximum. You'll see that the drive stage pulls higher values down lower than moderate values:

Image

If you apply that curve to a decay envelope, you'll have a similar effect: it will rise a little before it flattens out and then falls, just like you saw.


Pick a sine oscillator, use an LPF or BPF, and play with the drive and you'll hear that the drive absolutely is in front of the filter, not after it. Bypassing the filter simply doesn't bypass the drive too, that's all.
You’re wrong
Most synths are vco—>vcf—>vca .
The vca is the final stage and it’s controlled by the vca envelope , the drive in warlock is POST vca ( after ) and distorts the vca curve ( see posted screenshots ).
A vca is in fact a a multiplier , it mulitplies the input signal and it's controlled a by direct control voltage ( the adsr )
On a modular synth you can directly route a vca to the ouptut ( feeding it a dc offset ) and you will be represented with actual shape of the vca contour.
Actual shape of an envelope ( only using attaack,decay stage )
Image
Image
Let's replace the input dc with an actual sine wave ( no dist ) , still nice looking contour
Image


And let's now put a post vca drive ( like warlock )
Image

Image
And here we have pre vca drive(picture below) , the sine is saturated (becomes squarish )but NOT the actual vca shape
Image






Of course the waveform in your screesnhot is also distorted because it goes into a distorted vca .
If the drive should be pre filter , and the amp has a nice decaying envelope ( or attackt stage ) , these stages should not be altered ( they would be remain exponential)
Again , the screenshots show otherwise , the stages are amplified because of the saturation and will look and sound sustained .
When you say filter drive is nothing esoteric , you don't even make any distinction between input drive , filter topology drive etc..

You have no idea what you’re talking about
Last edited by gentleclockdivider on Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:48 am, edited 4 times in total.
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

KVRAF
2765 posts since 25 Mar, 2016 from Seattle

Post Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:44 am

Hi Markus,
Will the copy protection change to a license file upon release, or will the download links require username & password like present?

I notice Warlock is now on your downloads page at Tone2.com, will that link provide the latest version and will that link ask for my username and password?

KVRAF
1603 posts since 25 Feb, 2005

Post Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:59 am

@Markus Krause Hi just got an email about this and downloaded, cool synth with a digital sound (actually not a bad thing) I like the sound of it. I don't really want to scroll through the usual gripes etc about this, quick question is the €59 an intro offer and if so for how long.
Mac Pro
10.14.6
Cubase 11, Ableton Live 10.1

User avatar
KVRian

Topic Starter

870 posts since 2 Jul, 2018

Post Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:24 am

simmo75 wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:44 am
Hi Markus,
Will the copy protection change to a license file upon release, or will the download links require username & password like present?

I notice Warlock is now on your downloads page at Tone2.com, will that link provide the latest version and will that link ask for my username and password?
The copy-protection is a serial-number. No cloud, no dongle, no need to be online.

You already received the download-link for the latest version by email. It is v1.0 rc3. To validate that you installed it: Click on FILE->show version info.
is the €59 an intro offer and if so for how long
The price for the early-access version is €59. The price for the final release version will be the same or higher. But it won't be lower.
Tone2 Audiosoftware https://www.tone2.com

KVRAF
3046 posts since 18 May, 2003 from Sweden

Post Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:48 am

From the website:
"Mac: MacOS 10.11 or higher, MacOS 11; Intel CPU or Apple Silicon (native support)
Supported formats: VST 3.7 (64 bit), not compatible with Logic"

Is the perceived lack of AU just temporary, for the early access version, or is there really not going to be an AU compatible version?

In that case, as a Logic user, I guess I'm not really compatible with Warlock. ;-)
If it were easy, anybody could do it!

User avatar
KVRian

Topic Starter

870 posts since 2 Jul, 2018

Post Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:00 am

Is the perceived lack of AU just temporary, for the early access version, or is there really not going to be an AU compatible version?
I already answered this question in this thread. Here is what I wrote:
Because Apple introduced M1 chips and I am not able to create a stable AudioUnit for these machines. It is currently impossible to find the source of the problem. AUval (a tool provided by Apple) can not be debugged. Neither by myself nor by Steinberg.
Reference:
https://forums.steinberg.net/t/auv2-wra ... g/693452/6
https://forums.steinberg.net/t/unable-t ... val/693455
Tone2 Audiosoftware https://www.tone2.com

User avatar
KVRian

Topic Starter

870 posts since 2 Jul, 2018

Post Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:15 am

Q: What will be the final price?

The recent post from me about the price was:
"The price for the early-access version is €59. The price of the release version will be the same or higher. It will not be lower."
Tone2 Audiosoftware https://www.tone2.com

KVRist
295 posts since 3 Feb, 2017

Post Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:43 am

I tried the synth and I think it's actually pretty nice, but the negative and emotional way of responding to chk071 about the price confusion was absolutely uncalled for.
All he did was quote your own words in which you even stated "as PROMISED".
Now you have an "early access price", but you're not sure if it will stay the same or will be a bit more expensive.
How is it even an "early access" price then ?

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