Vital - Released

[mtytel]

Connects to vital.audio for a Vital update check. account.vital.audio to see if there are any preset packs for download and securetoken.googleapis.com to refresh the authentication token (which is used to check for bought packs and use for text to wavetable). I don't use any google analytics in Vital or on the vital.audio site.

This *should* only happen once per session though it might happen if you start a single Vital instance, delete it and add it again.

Generally, my first choice in copy protection is serial number, plus I prefer an installer that is self-contained, and doesn't need to call home (or reach out to the internet in any way) in order to do any of the installation. I base most of my purchases on this idea, although I have already purchased Vital Pro.

I think that's the best thing for guaranteeing that music projects can be opened in the future, should a synth/effects developer leave the marketplace and abandon any webservices or pages. The idea here is to insure that today's purchased synth is always installable and workable should said developer disappear. I realize that certain features may not be available (TTWT), but it would best to at least know that the synth itself is still installable/usable without relying on webservices/pages.

The login isn't for copy protection, it's just for services. You don't actually need to login (you can just click off to the side). I'm working on some offline workflow improvements like manually download/installing presets and things so should have some updates there at some point.

[OzoneJunkie]

Connects to vital.audio for a Vital update check. account.vital.audio to see if there are any preset packs for download and securetoken.googleapis.com to refresh the authentication token (which is used to check for bought packs and use for text to wavetable). I don't use any google analytics in Vital or on the vital.audio site.

This *should* only happen once per session though it might happen if you start a single Vital instance, delete it and add it again.

Generally, my first choice in copy protection is serial number, plus I prefer an installer that is self-contained, and doesn't need to call home (or reach out to the internet in any way) in order to do any of the installation. I base most of my purchases on this idea, although I have already purchased Vital Pro.

I think that's the best thing for guaranteeing that music projects can be opened in the future, should a synth/effects developer leave the marketplace and abandon any webservices or pages. The idea here is to insure that today's purchased synth is always installable and workable should said developer disappear. I realize that certain features may not be available (TTWT), but it would best to at least know that the synth itself is still installable/usable without relying on webservices/pages.

The login isn't for copy protection, it's just for services. You don't actually need to login (you can just click off to the side). I'm working on some offline workflow improvements like manually download/installing presets and things so should have some updates there at some point.

Great, good to know. And thanks, I appreciate that + thanks for an awesome synth.

[JoeCat]

(take this as a "raises hand in class and asks the teacher" rather than "WTF would you...?"):

What's the purpose of having hundreds of wavetables? I own some wavetable synths and I'm still somewhat noobish, but I've noticed experimenting with a lot of presets that I can often swap out wavetables in the same family and hear little difference - especially with spectral, organ, etc.

It seems like more than a 100 or so and you'd almost be lost in experimentation. I'm looking at Vital and the completionist in me is thinking "gotta have 400 wavetables" in the Pro version as opposed to the 75 with the Plus version version, but I wonder how much I'd utilize them.

And if you're making your own, what are you usually trying to achieve?

Again - my tone here is legitimate curiosity, not "defend yourself, idiot"
Shame I need the disclaimer, but that's the default on KVR lately.

[AJYoung]

So I found a fun thing. Turns out the Analog filter can oscillate pretty will as long as there's at least a tiny bit of signal. If you turn the OSC level all the way down to 0.001 (but not off). Can be super interesting coupled with the Filter FM.

Filter FM?? Where?

So fun fact: The LFO's are audio rate. Instead of "straight", "dotted", or "triplet" you can change it to "Keytrack". Then you get essentially an extra oscillator you can you use to modulate. Not every parameter is sample-perfect, but Phase, Volume, and Filter cutoff are.

So you can use an LFO for FM, AM, or Filter FM.

[AJYoung]

What's the purpose of having hundreds of wavetables?

Realistically, you don't need hundreds of Wavetables. Depending on genre of course.

I see them more as a "starting pallete". I'll find a wavetable I particularly like and then build a sound around it. Kind of like how you may browse a bunch of presets to find one that is close to ideal, and then tweak it to fit your song.

Plus, with so many ways to warp and manipulate them in modern synths, each wavetable is going to react differently.

[Effectsworks]

Some of my new presets for Vital:

Really cool mate.
Vital seems like it would be fantastic for soundscapes.

[pdxindy]

So I found a fun thing. Turns out the Analog filter can oscillate pretty will as long as there's at least a tiny bit of signal. If you turn the OSC level all the way down to 0.001 (but not off). Can be super interesting coupled with the Filter FM.

Filter FM?? Where?

So fun fact: The LFO's are audio rate. Instead of "straight", "dotted", or "triplet" you can change it to "Keytrack". Then you get essentially an extra oscillator you can you use to modulate. Not every parameter is sample-perfect, but Phase, Volume, and Filter cutoff are.

So you can use an LFO for FM, AM, or Filter FM.

Yeah... that is a nice kinda hidden gem... make sure smooth is turned down or it doesn't have much effect.

[Echoes in the Attic]

So I found a fun thing. Turns out the Analog filter can oscillate pretty will as long as there's at least a tiny bit of signal. If you turn the OSC level all the way down to 0.001 (but not off). Can be super interesting coupled with the Filter FM.

Filter FM?? Where?

So fun fact: The LFO's are audio rate. Instead of "straight", "dotted", or "triplet" you can change it to "Keytrack". Then you get essentially an extra oscillator you can you use to modulate. Not every parameter is sample-perfect, but Phase, Volume, and Filter cutoff are.

So you can use an LFO for FM, AM, or Filter FM.

Add that to the fact that the three oscillators can fm each other and you have quite a lot of combinations for fm algorithms!

[fisherKing]

it's great, how interesting & productive this community can be, when it's not being hijacked by angry trolls...

[Jkist]

(take this as a "raises hand in class and asks the teacher" rather than "WTF would you...?"):

What's the purpose of having hundreds of wavetables? I own some wavetable synths and I'm still somewhat noobish, but I've noticed experimenting with a lot of presets that I can often swap out wavetables in the same family and hear little difference - especially with spectral, organ, etc.

It seems like more than a 100 or so and you'd almost be lost in experimentation. I'm looking at Vital and the completionist in me is thinking "gotta have 400 wavetables" in the Pro version as opposed to the 75 with the Plus version version, but I wonder how much I'd utilize them.

And if you're making your own, what are you usually trying to achieve?

Again - my tone here is legitimate curiosity, not "defend yourself, idiot"
Shame I need the disclaimer, but that's the default on KVR lately.

Wavetables can basically be samples, so rather than spend forever trying to model a bell sound through FM synthesis or something, you can essentially just use a sample, and tweak it from there. But the beauty is that it doesn't have to behave like a sample, you can scroll through the table and use whatever parts you like at will.

But thats why it can be helpful to have a large number of them, because they do give you good starting points for different sounds. Its similar to why someone would need so many sample libraries, just different sounds for different situations. And true, most probably dont need as much as they have

[revvy]

Also, pro version has 400 presets, not 400 WTs

[cron]

My only real bugbear with it is that, like Serum, there's no wavetable interpolation. The wavetables themselves seem to have more frames which mitigates the issue somewhat, but you'll still hear 'stepping' on slower modulations and/or the tail end of long, logarithmic envelopes.

There is wavetable interpolation. Open the editor and there is an option there for a number of interpolation options

I mean at the oscillator level. Even with line sources rather than audio, as you scroll through or modulate the wavetable it 'clicks' over to the next frame whenever you reach a certain point. There's nothing meaningful 'between' frames. Presumably it's a trade-off to save CPU. In practice it just limits the complexity/rate of change you can feasibly use in your wavetables before 'steps' become obvious with slower modulations or noise creeps too high on faster modulations. Things like, say, the original Massive's 'Carbon' wavetable where every frame is a distinct timbre are off the cards. Carbon was really nice for jumping around inside and modulating between adjacent timbres - like having 50 wavetables in one.

Yeah, at the Osc level... you can draw 2 waves and it interpolates between them... it defaults to no interpolation. In the editor is the option for interpolation. There are 4 different interpolation options.

Am I missing something here? I only get those interpolation options with audio file sources, and they still produce the same behaviour when I use them. They're missing from line source and wave source which also show the same behaviour. The interpolation options will blow up any audio source to 256 wavetable frames, but there's still no interpolation between those frames in the oscillator. You can play back frame 250 or frame 251, but you won't get a blend of the two if you set the wavetable position to 250.5

[JoeCat]

What's the purpose of having hundreds of wavetables?

Realistically, you don't need hundreds of Wavetables. Depending on genre of course.

I see them more as a "starting pallete". I'll find a wavetable I particularly like and then build a sound around it. Kind of like how you may browse a bunch of presets to find one that is close to ideal, and then tweak it to fit your song.

Plus, with so many ways to warp and manipulate them in modern synths, each wavetable is going to react differently.

Yeah, I guess it's a matter of not having 20 "Organ1, Organ2, Organ3..." wavetables, but quality stuff.

Are Vital's extra Wavetables in the "Pro" version worth the extra price over the Plus (I'm not much of a preset person - nice to have but I'm more interested in sound design potential)? (I mistakenly thought it was 400 wavetables but it's 400 presets; the Plus version has 70 wavetables and Pro 150, but that's one thing you can't really demo AFAIK)

I have Pigments (and Ableton's Wavetable), but Vital looks like a lot of fun for the $.

(Wavetable gets some poo for not being feature-rich but it's got the awesome Cytomic filters; IMHO it's almost as underrated in that realm as Operator is in FM for the same reason).

[cron]

(take this as a "raises hand in class and asks the teacher" rather than "WTF would you...?"):

What's the purpose of having hundreds of wavetables? I own some wavetable synths and I'm still somewhat noobish, but I've noticed experimenting with a lot of presets that I can often swap out wavetables in the same family and hear little difference - especially with spectral, organ, etc.

It seems like more than a 100 or so and you'd almost be lost in experimentation. I'm looking at Vital and the completionist in me is thinking "gotta have 400 wavetables" in the Pro version as opposed to the 75 with the Plus version version, but I wonder how much I'd utilize them.

And if you're making your own, what are you usually trying to achieve?

Again - my tone here is legitimate curiosity, not "defend yourself, idiot"
Shame I need the disclaimer, but that's the default on KVR lately.

Wavetables can basically be samples, so rather than spend forever trying to model a bell sound through FM synthesis or something, you can essentially just use a sample, and tweak it from there. But the beauty is that it doesn't have to behave like a sample, you can scroll through the table and use whatever parts you like at will.

But thats why it can be helpful to have a large number of them, because they do give you good starting points for different sounds. Its similar to why someone would need so many sample libraries, just different sounds for different situations. And true, most probably dont need as much as they have

The above broadly gets it across, but worth bearing in mind that there are limitations here. One of the reasons you'd look to model a bell with FM synthesis is because bell tones contain inharmonic partials and FM synthesis is great at kicking those out. Wavetable synthesis can't produce inharmonic timbres.

[JoeCat]

Also, pro version has 400 presets, not 400 WTs

Right - my bad - it's about double the wavetables from 70 to 150.