Korg ARP Odyssey vs 26000

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
KVRAF
29495 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Thu Aug 05, 2021 3:48 am

Why even buy an emulation if you don't care how close it is to the original?

Unless you like limited synth architectures...
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

KVRist

Topic Starter

456 posts since 31 Dec, 2020

Post Thu Aug 05, 2021 4:20 am

I bought it because I liked the sound and what it could do.

Limitations aren't always a bad thing. I have, for example, Pigments. But these all singing and all dancing synths are less inspiring to work with, for me, because they have no limits.

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KVRist
479 posts since 9 Apr, 2005 from Japan

Post Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:16 am

teilo wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:47 am
Wow. So we have no decent Odyssey emulation from anyone.
I own the hardware and the software (both Korg) and can make them sound exactly the same without much effort. Is that not decent enough?
Stormchild

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KVRian
988 posts since 30 Mar, 2008 from MN, USA

Post Thu Aug 05, 2021 4:53 pm

Arashi wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:16 am
teilo wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:47 am
Wow. So we have no decent Odyssey emulation from anyone.
I own the hardware and the software (both Korg) and can make them sound exactly the same without much effort. Is that not decent enough?
I don't know what you can or can't do, but in that comparison video, the Korg and GForce software synths sounded nothing like the hardware, and Starskey is very good at what he does.

KVRian
556 posts since 23 Dec, 2011

Post Thu Aug 05, 2021 6:01 pm

I like the Odyssey quite a lot. Programming is straight forward, and it's tones are great. It suffers in it's MIDI implementation, along with a few (not all) of the Korg Collection Instruments. Specifically .. if you want to control Odyssey from an external keyboard... the standalone has no Global MIDI Channel control. At least not on the Mac OS. So - it reacts to MIDI messages on every channel. This is the standalone version. Prophecy, MiniKorg, Wavestation, Polysix, Mono/Poly, MS-20 all have the same problem. Can't select a Global MIDI Channel for the standalone versions. You can work around that limitation by not using the standalone versions... and hosting from a DAW / running the AU instrument versions. But that is a kludge. The Korg Collection M1, Triton and Triton Extreme allow for a Global MIDI Channel so those ones... I am using in my live setup. The other Korg instruments.. are there for DAW / recording.. but I am avoiding using them. If I am being honest about it all. I really like the Korg tones, and soft synths. Sadly.. it feels as though they tossed development to a couple of different teams. Team A... made the standalone versions usable. Team B.. didn't get the memo. :)

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GRRRRRRR!
12468 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Thu Aug 05, 2021 6:11 pm

You can't find some kind of wrapper that will filter MIDI for you, like Tone2's MiniHost or something? I've not tried it but it seems like something that might do the trick. Or why not use them on stage in your host? I can't see how it would matter.
chk071 wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:31 am
"You're post is uninformed, and you don't know what you're talking about, but, I agree with you."
That's because you made a broad, sweeping statement that all the Korg plugins were bad, and he replied by saying that while the one example you used wasn't very good, it didn't mean that none of them were.
Find the error. ;)
If there is an error, it is yours. It's perfectly clear to me what he was saying.
Admittedly, I haven't tried the Odyssey softie, but, frankly, knowing the quality of the Korg software, I can't imagine that they have made quantum leaps in the analog modelling. The Behringer will be closer.
Why will it? Korg had one of ARP's founders working on their ARP stuff. If he's happy, I'm happy. All you are doing is making assumptions, with no first-hand knowledge to back it up. Why you would even bother commenting when you are ignorant of any of the salient information is beyond me.

This guy, for example, does a direct comparison between his real PolySix and Korg's VSTi version, and is more than happy that it's a close emulation of the original -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vK3OlNO ... avierRadix
So who are we going to believe, someone who has never used any of the original hardware and probably not the software, either, or a guy standing there playing both, one after the other, to prove his point?
chk071 wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:50 am
I surely would want to compare the software to the hardware. All that I can say is that I doubt that the KORG software engineers upped their game so much, and compete with NI, Softube or u-he now.
Right, because Korg hadn't been doing software based synthesisers for 20 years before they did the Legacy Collection. Oh, wait on, they had digital synths in the 1980s, so maybe they have been doing synth software for longer than anyone.
The KORG Legacy Collection is from 2004, by the way, as far as I can see. And, as far as I know, some of the included plugins were added later.
And the DW6000 is from 1985, 19 years earlier. Then there was the Prophecy in 1995, followed by the MS2000, strangely enough, in 2000. I think by 2004, Korg were probably head and shoulders above anyone else when it came to the smarts required to make a convincing software emulation, using the component modelling technology they had developed in-house. And the proof of the pudding was in the eating, as shown in the videos we've provided.
Rastkovic wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 2:47 am
Starsky Carr made a comparison, between Korg Odyssey Hardware, Korg Odyssey VST and GMedia Oddity2. My personal problem with this comparison is, besides the Korg Odyssey Hardware is good analog synth, for me it doesn't have the special ARP sound. Just my opinion, of course....
Right, because involving one of ARP's founders in the project would lead to that, wouldn't it? I think the ARP Odyssey VSTi is just about as special as it gets. When I first heard it, it was the sole reason for me to go from 32 bit to 64 bit (there was no 32 bit version) and several years later, every time I hear it, it still impressed the hell out of me. I've always had a soft spot for Odyssey but I thought it was because of Billy Currie's amazing solos with Ultravox and Dave Formula's use of it with Magazine, but now that I have the VSTi, I realise that it has a really special sound. I absolutely love it!
Just flicking through that, I think the guy displays either a real prejudice or he has a tin ear. e.g. In the comparison he does at 7:35, he says the Oddity sounds closer but to my ears it has noticeably more of that hollow square wave sound than the other two. The Korg is quieter but I think it's sound is much, much closer. The fact he hasn't tried to match the levels makes me wonder if he isn't deliberately trying to make the Korg sound worse. In the last comparison, too, the Korg sounds close enough to identical, where the Oddity doesn't get anywhere near it.
chk071 wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 3:48 am
Why even buy an emulation if you don't care how close it is to the original?
I can think of several reasons -
- you like how they sound,
- you enjoy the ease of use and straightforward workflow most of them have, and/or
- you know what you're doing and don't need a million fancy features to get what you need from them
Unless you like limited synth architectures...
And there's another perfectly valid reason.
teilo wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 4:53 pm
I don't know what you can or can't do, but in that comparison video, the Korg and GForce software synths sounded nothing like the hardware, and Starskey is very good at what he does.
Sorry, that's not what I heard. I heard one that would do well in any blind test against the hardware and one that wouldn't.
NOVAkILL : Zenbook Duo, Core i7, 16GB RAM, Win10(64), Evo8 | Studio One | JP6K, Union, Hexeract, bx_oberhausen, Odyssey, TRK-01, Vacuum Pro, Invader, Concept, GR-8, Thorn, Equator, VG Iron 2 | Uno Pro Desktop, Uno, Rocket.

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GRRRRRRR!
12468 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Thu Aug 05, 2021 6:14 pm

Anyway, to answer the OP's original question, as an owner of both CA2600 and Korg's ARP Odyssey plugins, I think the Odyssey is a much better synth all-round. It's one problem is that it is a bit of a CPU hog, but it sounds so bloody good that you just won't care. The CA2600 might be able to do more but it will never sound as good as Odyssey and, in the end, that should matter more than everything else put together.
NOVAkILL : Zenbook Duo, Core i7, 16GB RAM, Win10(64), Evo8 | Studio One | JP6K, Union, Hexeract, bx_oberhausen, Odyssey, TRK-01, Vacuum Pro, Invader, Concept, GR-8, Thorn, Equator, VG Iron 2 | Uno Pro Desktop, Uno, Rocket.

KVRian
556 posts since 23 Dec, 2011

Post Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:09 pm

BONES wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 6:11 pm
You can't find some kind of wrapper that will filter MIDI for you, like Tone2's MiniHost or something? I've not tried it but it seems like something that might do the trick. Or why not use them on stage in your host? I can't see how it would matter.
...
Good point re: small host. I've used microDAW Hosting AU for just those purposes. Worked for Serum, and works for any of the few Korg soft synths that need a host that can filter MIDI from a controller to a specific channel. Hosting AU (or using a fuller featured DAW), also allows you to pull in effects or other AU additions to a live mix. For me though... that is just another piece of stuff that can load up the CPU, or cause unnecessary things that can go wrong. That's just me though. These synths *can* be hosted and work. I just prefer the simplicity of the working standalone versions.

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GRRRRRRR!
12468 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:21 pm

That's kind of what Tone2's NanoHost does. In the end, it becomes a standalone version of the VSTi. It's not something you load up and then add the VSTi into every time you want to use it. AFAIK, it has very little CPU overhead. I think it would be worth checking out - https://www.tone2.com/nanohost.html
NOVAkILL : Zenbook Duo, Core i7, 16GB RAM, Win10(64), Evo8 | Studio One | JP6K, Union, Hexeract, bx_oberhausen, Odyssey, TRK-01, Vacuum Pro, Invader, Concept, GR-8, Thorn, Equator, VG Iron 2 | Uno Pro Desktop, Uno, Rocket.

KVRian
556 posts since 23 Dec, 2011

Post Thu Aug 05, 2021 9:30 pm

Thx for the heads up. Looks like NanoHost doesnt support OSX (Mac), so no joy. Went ahead though, and added Wavestation and MiniKorg channels on Hosting AU. Will keep an eye on memory.. but so far - Hosting AU is now working great hosting Serum, Prophecy, miniKorg and Wavestation on separate channels. All good.

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KVRAF
4460 posts since 4 Aug, 2006 from Helsinki

Post Thu Aug 05, 2021 9:41 pm

I own the Korg bundle 2, including Odyssey. Odyssey is an exeption to the others: a real pain in the neck, practically useles.
It may sound good, but you possibly never will know, because:
Cpu in several presets overloads 200% +
(DAW Win 10, i7, RAM 16, Live 9).

GUI: you can’t use the plugin in most of the laptops, because you need a scroll-mouse
for changing the page.

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GRRRRRRR!
12468 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Thu Aug 05, 2021 10:35 pm

1. With my 10th gen i7, Odyssey rarely peaks over 30% and is not much over 10% without unison. How old is your i7?
2. You don't really need to change pages, all the original synth's controls are visible in the default view. It's only bonus features - effects and the arp - that you need to access from the other page.
3. Who the hell doesn't have a scroll wheel mouse in 2021? I have two for each of my computers - a wired one for desktop and a smaller wireless one that's more portable. I imagine it would work OK with touch, too.
NOVAkILL : Zenbook Duo, Core i7, 16GB RAM, Win10(64), Evo8 | Studio One | JP6K, Union, Hexeract, bx_oberhausen, Odyssey, TRK-01, Vacuum Pro, Invader, Concept, GR-8, Thorn, Equator, VG Iron 2 | Uno Pro Desktop, Uno, Rocket.

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KVRist
479 posts since 9 Apr, 2005 from Japan

Post Thu Aug 05, 2021 10:39 pm

teilo wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 4:53 pm
I don't know what you can or can't do, but in that comparison video, the Korg and GForce software synths sounded nothing like the hardware, and Starskey is very good at what he does.
I have to disagree with you there. He often just ballparks things and fails to match sounds properly (starting with basic 101 stuff like matching levels). I recommend using your own ears and experience to draw conclusions, but it's up to you whether you care enough to put in the effort. All I can tell you is the Korg plugin can sound exactly like the hardware in competent hands.
Stormchild

KVRist
302 posts since 26 Jul, 2018 from Germany

Post Fri Aug 06, 2021 12:26 am

BONES wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 6:11 pm
Rastkovic wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 2:47 am
Starsky Carr made a comparison, between Korg Odyssey Hardware, Korg Odyssey VST and GMedia Oddity2. My personal problem with this comparison is, besides the Korg Odyssey Hardware is good analog synth, for me it doesn't have the special ARP sound. Just my opinion, of course....
Right, because involving one of ARP's founders in the project would lead to that, wouldn't it? I think the ARP Odyssey VSTi is just about as special as it gets. When I first heard it, it was the sole reason for me to go from 32 bit to 64 bit (there was no 32 bit version) and several years later, every time I hear it, it still impressed the hell out of me. I've always had a soft spot for Odyssey but I thought it was because of Billy Currie's amazing solos with Ultravox and Dave Formula's use of it with Magazine, but now that I have the VSTi, I realise that it has a really special sound. I absolutely love it!
Interesting, the pure sound of the Korg ARP Odyssey VST without FX sounds harsh and not very pleasing to me. Filtered sounds with the envelope are okay, but every time the filter opens, it makes the hairs stand up on my back of the neck.

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KVRAF
4460 posts since 4 Aug, 2006 from Helsinki

Post Fri Aug 06, 2021 2:00 am

BONES wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 10:35 pm
1. With my 10th gen i7, Odyssey rarely peaks over 30% and is not much over 10% without unison. How old is your i7?
2. You don't really need to change pages, all the original synth's controls are visible in the default view. It's only bonus features - effects and the arp - that you need to access from the other page.
3. Who the hell doesn't have a scroll wheel mouse in 2021? I have two for each of my computers - a wired one for desktop and a smaller wireless one that's more portable. I imagine it would work OK with touch, too.
1. Funny question - you mean its OK to overload cpu 200%+, if the i7 is ”old”.
2. Strange comment.If you don’t need you change the page, why create a two-page GUI?
3. Stupid comment. I have a scroll mouse, several, use with my studio desk top. But the idea of the laptop is being mobile, and use it in the lap (as the name indicates), i.e. minimize extra gadget - if the scroll mouse is not inbuilt to the laptop,I don’t drag an external mouse with me just because the bad design of a plugin.
Last edited by Harry_HH on Fri Aug 06, 2021 2:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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