KVR Audio

jens · Post by **jens** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:26 pm

AD80 wrote:
ianweb123 wrote: If that was the demo for a product that I was trying to sell I would be pretty disapointed

If you think thats bad you should see the Tracktion 2.0 video!

adydub · Post by **adydub** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:38 pm

zircon wrote: Pft. Check out the Roland V-Synth demo vids. between the d-beams and time trip pad, you can mess up any sound beyond belief in less than a second.

Well, I'd be really very happy with a V synth. And nearly want one enough to pay for it - I feel some e-bay window shopping coming on now in fact

It's one of the few production hardware synths that offers anything special over what good plugins and a decent controller can offer. (Apart from some of the exotic moudlar analogues maybe).

I'm not, however, feeling any techno lust for the neuron. But it does seem to be a bit different in the way it goes about things. I'd like to get my hands on a demo to see if it's all about joystick widdling, or if there is anything special under the hood.

püRe · Post by **püRe** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 12:07 am

Hartmann eventually decided to make ModelMaker available for VS users....

That demo was completely shite.....you can make much better sonds with it....

contrast · Post by **contrast** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 12:31 am

I had heard that they decided to do that, but in the video from NAMM the guy demoing it says specifically that you can't use the modelmaker.

If that's incorrect then it's more interesting but still a bit overpriced, maybe it will come down a bit eventually.

pooshka · Post by **pooshka** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 3:10 am

correct me if I'm wrong, but going through various Hartmann threads here I got the impression that in general there seem to be a bit of 'anti-Hartmann Neuron' attitude going on among many members. I'm not too interested in arguing for or against Hartmann, but I just wanted to hear some people's explanations on why they are happy to whine about Neuron.

Two main reasons I can sort of identify are

a) too expensive for what it does

b) claims to be 'unique' when it may not be

any other reasons? can some people who criticise Neuron comment on this and elaborate themselves further please?

contrast · Post by **contrast** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 3:34 am

It's all in the pricing, if the plugin version were even $500 it would not get half the crap that it does, it would just be an expensive plugin.

donato · Post by **donato** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 3:37 am

People here also think the Access Virus is the best synth around LOL. If you guys want some more detailed info about synths, check out the keyboard forums at harmonycentral.com. This place is great for softsynths, but most people don't know jack about hardware synths here.

PaulSC · Post by **PaulSC** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 3:40 am

(Or maybe we know more about hardware synths than you know about us?)

AD80 · Post by **AD80** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 3:40 am

Last time I checked, Neuron VS IS a softsynth

.

Warmonger · Post by **Warmonger** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 3:41 am

pooshka wrote:Two main reasons I can sort of identify are

a) too expensive for what it does

b) claims to be 'unique' when it may not be

any other reasons? can some people who criticise Neuron comment on this and elaborate themselves further please?

For me it's not just the claim of uniqueness, but the invented jargon and over-the-top euphemistic marketing that goes along with it.

lowkey · Post by **lowkey** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 3:44 am

lowkey wrote:Get Kubik, Short Ciruit and a couple of BCR2000's then use the change to buy your favorite sci-fi series on DVD.

You'll be able to make better sounds, have better control, be entertained and have hours worth of techno-babble....With change.

That about covers what I think of them

Alan · Post by **Alan** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:13 am

donato wrote:check out the keyboard forums at harmonycentral.com.

What did we do to deserve that cruel and unusual punishment?

pooshka · Post by **pooshka** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:44 am

Warmonger wrote:For me it's not just the claim of uniqueness, but the invented jargon and over-the-top euphemistic marketing that goes along with it.

oh i haven't thought of that - cool. but what is particularly 'bad' about use of 'invented jargon'? 'Over-the-top euphemistic marketing' i can sort of understand as generally being annoying to most of population in any industry, but certainly there are many other companies who'd like to invent some cheesy jargons for their products? is Hartmann committing any 'worse' crime in this sense or are they just 'equally bad as all those others who do this'?

contrast wrote:It's all in the pricing, if the plugin version were even $500 it would not get half the crap that it does, it would just be an expensive plugin

do you think 'over-pricing' makes people actually 'hostile' to a product, rather than just 'not interested in purchasing it'?

..i'm asking all these questions because I find it interesting that there seem to be anti-Neuron feeling among many, and why this interests me is becasue I think anti-product X kind of thing is definitely a different matter from just 'not being interested in a product because it's too expensive/not useful for me' type of thing.

Warmonger · Post by **Warmonger** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:59 am

Both the jargon and the price hint at a rather large ego at Hartmann. They invented new terms for well-understood concepts in audio, and I can't see any good reason for this.

This obfuscation can only be intended to make someone think that it can do things that other synths can't, which would then justify the high pricetag.

Since resynthesis is possible elsewhere (and has little or nothing to do with neural networks), it seems that they just wanted to create a niche of their own, rather than compare on a feature and sound basis to other resynthesizers.

contrast · Post by **contrast** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 5:15 am

donato wrote: This place is great for softsynths, but most people don't know jack about hardware synths here.

Honestly, both forums have their share of idiocy and ignorance (as does any internet messageboard you might choose to read). I suppose that KVR is not the first place you'd go to read about hardware synths but that shouldn't come as much of a shock given the nature of the site.

As for Virus, it seems to get a lot of crap on both forums, actually. I don't know that it's the "best synth around" (I guess you're insinuating something about whatever your preferred real analog is) but it's certainly a fine piece of work and my favorite of the hardware VAs.

pooshka wrote:do you think 'over-pricing' makes people actually 'hostile' to a product, rather than just 'not interested in purchasing it'?

When it's really overpriced, yes. Especially on the internet.

At the time of release, the KB version got a lot of crap on some of the forums for justifying the pricing by saying the synth needs an "extreme amount of processing power" that's "not available in a small, low budget box". Which they still have on their site, by the way. Anyway at the time of release, they had a Pentium III and a discontinued motherboard in there. The combo they used was at or near bargain bin status even then.

So, the point being, that sort of thing will certainly make some people mock it, which probably comes across as hostile.

Hartmann Neuron video from NAMM