U-he Hardware - CVilization Eurorack Module

[vvilms]

Additionally you can save/recall up to 128 presets via MIDI commands.

Oh wait, what? How does one go about setting ^this up, as that simplifies things quite a bit for me. (Though, I still would love preset interpolation via CV. <3)

EDIT: Ah, I see I'd need something like Expert Sleeper's Select Bus breakout module. That seems doable. Are there any other options? It's a shame Squarp's Hermod or Polyend's Poly 2 isn't capable of sending these messages; I'd love if there were a more "do it all" solution for MIDI incorporation.

I have an MB76, it's such a neat, useful piece of gear. I wish that there was something similar but with balanced I/O and finer control of gain/attenuation.

Exactly this. It's such a huge hole in the market that I've considered trying to fill myself. I just don't really know where to start with the hardware development end.

I want to use a Focusrite Rednet R1 for basically the same thing.

Oh cool, I hadn't heard of Rednet R1; I appreciate the heads up.

Here's a vid of schematics for how the two MB76's are set up atm:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBCE2IipKSo

[justin3am]

Yes, I use the ES Select Bus Breakout. It's actually mounted inside one of my cases, so it doesn't take up HP.
Whether done in the analog or digital domain, a high quality matrix mixer with a ton of I/O is going to be expensive. I've experimented a little, using a PIC to control 2164s or THAT VCAs... but flexibility is one thing, making it easy to use is quite another, so it's another project relegated to the backlog. The R1 is tempting because I already have all my I/O routed through a Dante network.

[vvilms]

It's actually mounted inside one of my cases, so it doesn't take up HP.

Do you have any documentation (photos/ vids) to share on this? -- I'd love to do the same. Also presently trying to figure out where to acquire one. Is this the same as their "MIDI breakout", or is it different?

Also, how seamless are program changes? The Akai likes to give me pops on switches, whereas the sequential switches with audio were super clean; I'd hope the cleanliness extends to program changes as well.

Whether done in the analog or digital domain.

I'd be curious to know if you've done any testing between the the SQ of the Akai MB76 and CVilization.

Flexibility is one thing, making it easy to use is quite another.

I totally feel you on this.

The R1 is tempting because I already have all my I/O routed through a Dante network.

Ah ok, noted.

[justin3am]

It's actually mounted inside one of my cases, so it doesn't take up HP.

Do you have any documentation (photos/ vids) to share on this? -- I'd love to do the same. Also presently trying to figure out where to acquire one. Is this the same as their "MIDI breakout", or is it different?

I'm afraid I don't but it's really not as clever as it sounds. I literally used zip-ties to anchor the module to standoffs which hold one of my bus boards in place.
https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/selec ... akout.html
As far as I know it's only available in kit form.

Also, how seamless are program changes? The Akai likes to give me pops on switches, whereas the sequential switches with audio were super clean; I'd hope the cleanliness extends to program changes as well.

I'v been using CVz to make complex feedback looks recently and preset changes happen very smoothly. I don't notice the kind of popping you can get from MB76. If I remember correctly the MB76 is using a series of switches, rather than real VCAs.

I'd be curious to know if you've done any testing between the the SQ of the Akai MB76 and CVilization.

No direct comparison but I can safely say that CVz is super clean, has tons of headroom and is less noisy than my MB76. I would comfortably use it for routing studio gear (along side line level shifters for balancing/unbalancing), as well as modular stuff. I mean I haven't analyzed it with an Audio Precision setup but it suites my needs.

[vvilms]

I literally used zip-ties to anchor the module to standoffs which hold one of my bus boards in place.

Ah ok, and I'm guessing the cable just runs out of it through a spot where a spacer would've been placed or maybe you modified the rack to allow for cables in and out. Does it take up any additional power?

Also, is there a limit to the number of Select Bus receiver modules you can address with a single Breakout module?

I don't notice the kind of popping you can get from MB76. If I remember correctly the MB76 is using a series of switches, rather than real VCAs...

CVz is super clean, has tons of headroom and is less noisy than my MB76. I would comfortably use it for routing studio gear (along side line level shifters for balancing/unbalancing), as well as modular stuff.

Yeah, this is all super tempting, reading. Hmmm.

EDIT: Does one need more than one Select Bus Breakout in order to address different modules discretely?

[vvilms]

Popping back in to ask what line level shifters you'd suggest. I see the Erica Synths Pico "Input", but their "Output" seems to only pass out stereo 3.5mm. I'm not super familiar with decent "3.5mm TRS to 1/4"" pair cables.

[justin3am]

I use Ebtech Line Level shifters. I have 4 LLS-8s but you can also use their Hum-Eliminator products, if you want to go from unbalanced to balanced without boosting the signal. It's just a matter of how the transformers are wound.

I don't know if there is a limit to the number of Select Bus receiver modules. If you want to control one Select Bus receiver without affecting the others, I think you would need to have them connected to different bus boards, each with their own Select Bus sender. As far as I know the Select Bus protocol doesn't use the channel bytes from MIDI messages.

[vvilms]

RE: gain-staging vs. hum eliminators: I went ahead and tracked down some specs:

Rytm
Balanced audio outputs
* Main outputs level: +15 dBu
* Output impedance: 440 Ω unbalanced

Unbalanced external inputs
* Input level: +15 dBu maximum
* Audio input impedance: 9 kΩ

A4
Balanced audio outputs
* Main outputs level: +19 dBu
* Output impedance: 440 Ω unbalanced

Unbalanced audio inputs
* Input level: +19 dBu maximum
* Audio input impedance: 9 kΩ

Heat
Audio outputs
* Impedance balanced main outputs level: +19 dBu peak
* Main outputs impedance: 440 Ω unbalanced

Audio inputs
* Balanced audio input level: +19 dBu peak
* Audio input impedance: 39 kΩ

Iridium
* I couldn't find anything regarding Iridium's input and output levels or impedance, but both inputs and outputs were stated as tip-sleeve = unbalanced.

As far as balancing and unbalancing goes, I believe this means I'd only need to unbalance 10 channels: 6 on the outputs (AR, A4, AH), and 4 on the inputs (AH, and mbox 3 pro), though maybe it would make more sense to grab an ES9.

As far as gain-staging goes, I'm pretty green with euro in this regard. I know Iridium outputs a fair bit quieter than the Elektrons, so I've been compensating with lower internal Elektron track levels and just increasing gain on my interface. I've run a test with 1 channel of audio through a single CVz and I think it could be doable for now, but again -- I'm a bit green in this respect.

RE: connected to different bus boards

Ah, hmm. Well, I suppose 128 presets is enough to allow me to create enough duplicates of each configuration to cover all combinations of configurations of audio routings + A4 CV signal routings, for now. Though, I'd be curious to hear if you have any suggestions on cases that afford multiple bus boards.

Lastly, my apologies for the length.

[vvilms]

Alright, so I just read through the Select Bus Presets paragraph on page 29 of the user guide, and I find that things are still a bit hazy with regard to how to program and store a preset in a slot. Might anyone be able to offer any additional clarity on this?

[Urs]

I don't have things in front of me, but to give you a rough idea:

The select bus protocol defines that a MIDI Program Change can be used to either load or save a preset. In order to know which is which, the Program Change needs to be preceded by a certain Control Change (number isn't in my head) which is set to either 64 (recall) or 127 (store).

Ok, wait, I found it:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YhP ... CP-qw/edit

Note that in CVilization we don't have a concept of "banks". The hardware can only keep a single setting in memory at any time. So we only deal with "Messages to recall/store a setting", we don't do "store current bank of settings". As fas as we know this is only a problem with Rene as of now. For which we have planned an option for a workaround.

[Urs]

Ah, after going on MW I see what you're trying to achieve with the Hermod!

A raw Program Change atm does not do much, as it does not tell CVilization to store anything. As long as the presets are empty, the recall is simply ignored. However, the workaround we planned for Rene would just as well work in your case.

I have to ask our devs to see how far we are with this. I think most of the first round of feature requests are done, but I don't think "Rene mode" has surfaced yet. I'll ask them to squeeze this one in as well if possible.

[vvilms]

<3 — Thanks so much for the response, good sir.

Tbh, I’m still in the process of trying to ascertain whether or not I did a sufficient job building the Select Bus Breakout, before expecting it to communicate with CVilization. (Though, I’ll go ahead and give these instructions a go to see if it responds.***)

As far as I understand, the Select Bus Breakout should pass along data out of its MIDI-out-port, and at the moment, I can’t seem to get it to do so.
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***Am I to understand that an entire CVz preset is stored as “one setting”, then?

At which point, I should send out 127 on CC# 16, followed by the program change number that I’d like to associate it with?

And then send out 64 on CC# 16, followed by the associated program change number that it’s associated with to recall that state?
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Furthermore, I’d been under the impression that I could store a set of 24 (needed for my intended use-case) routing configurations (similar to the 7 presets in each mode) to recall through MIDI. And that I’d only need to store these configurations once, and that they’d be retained following a power cycle. Is this incorrect?

Thanks,
Aaron

[vvilms]

At which point, I should send out 127 on CC# 16, followed by the program change number that I’d like to associate it with?

And then send out 64 on CC# 16, followed by the associated program change number that it’s associated with to recall that state?

Following up to say ^this doesn't seem to do anything for me. I'm issuing these messages from Max MSP through Hermod into Select Bus Breakout via the following logic:

https://imgur.com/a/NmN7Y8p

Click 1 on the right to store the current configuration under Program Change #1.
Click 1 on the left to recall the configuration associated with Program Change #1.
etc.

[vvilms]

Something I’ve noted with the first unit (I now I have 3) is that it’ll occasionally fail to boot following a power cycle. The fix being to power cycle, once more. I’m not sure what might be causing this, hmm.

[Urs]

Something I’ve noted with the first unit (I now I have 3) is that it’ll occasionally fail to boot following a power cycle. The fix being to power cycle, once more. I’m not sure what might be causing this, hmm.

We have seen this before and one possible solution is for us to add a short wait (a small fraction of a second) before we access the SD Card. It seems that sometimes the module hangs when trying to access the SD Card too quickly after power up. I would have to ask the devs, but IIRC our first firmware update will have that added, hopefully fixing this issue.