MSF: MP weirdness, or…? Part 1

[David]

Over in the MSF Design thread, here: viewtopic.php?f=138&t=520095&p=7412191#p7412191 I tried to describe an odd problem with MPs and Device design. No responses yet, and the description WAS long and not illustrated. So, I'm trying again in a more focused way to get at my questions on this.

To restate: Is there a way to add a randomizer Trigger to parameters that are in a different group? As you can see in the screen grab, I hadn't left any room between the groups I now wanted to add randomizers to, and I already had a LOT of very labored over Presets for the Device involved. So, instead of moving the existing MPs to new slots to make room for adding Title Button MPs at the top of each group, I tried using some empty slots below the three groups I didn't want to move, and put these in a group all their own:



What this resulted in was actually kind of cool, but not AT ALL what I wanted.

Once added, the Randomizing buttons work perfectly to randomize just the targets I assigned them to, BUT they also get activated with every load of a different preset, so none of the existing ones ever load now the same way twice…!

Kinda neat to know that this is an option, but, WHY is this happening, and HOW best to fix/avoid it? I then added an enable button for the Randomizer group, which works great, EXCEPT, that I still have to go in and replace every existing preset with that switch set to Off… AND when doing that, the old presets of course come in randomized, NOT sounding like they used to! I did change the default for the Enable button to OFF, but that doesn't stop them from loading On.

Sheesh… TIA for any suggestions!

[jmg8]

When a preset is loaded, it goes through the MPs one at a time and sets them to the correct values (according to the preset) but when it gets to a randomizer it actually triggers it when loading.
If the randomizer is BEFORE the MPs it is randomizing this is not a problem, as the random values it generates will be overridden when the MPs loads its value. But if the randomizer is AFTER the parameters it is randomizing then you get the problem.

[David]

When a preset is loaded, it goes through the MPs one at a time and sets them to the correct values (according to the preset) but when it gets to a randomizer it actually triggers it when loading.
If the randomizer is BEFORE the MPs it is randomizing this is not a problem, as the random values it generates will be overridden when the MPs loads its value. But if the randomizer is AFTER the parameters it is randomizing then you get the problem.

Bingo, perfect—thank you!

[DarkStar]

I am curious - what target parameters are your Randomizer button randomizing?

[David]

I am curious - what target parameters are your Randomizer button randomizing?

The top four bars in each Osc group.

[David]

When a preset is loaded, it goes through the MPs one at a time and sets them to the correct values (according to the preset) but when it gets to a randomizer it actually triggers it when loading.
If the randomizer is BEFORE the MPs it is randomizing this is not a problem, as the random values it generates will be overridden when the MPs loads its value. But if the randomizer is AFTER the parameters it is randomizing then you get the problem.

OK, that seems clear enough—BUT…

Well, check this out, any one who's interested. It's my device that self-randomizes…my first version, without the Enable button for the Randomizer Group. At the end of the DPresets collection, there's a few presets I made after adding the randomizers (names include the words After Random or the initials AR…). Try arrow-clicking (<, >) between them a few times, and you'll see (unless it's just here…??) that these often load WITHOUT being auto-randomized. It's not consistent, but more often than not; almost seems to have to do with the direction you're clicking into them from (with the arrows), but I can't really make sense of what's going on.

You'll recognize this, Jason; it's a variation of the one I sent you, still my favorite MSF device I've ever made, and I very much enjoy the randomizing, as that's only on a few parameters, and not on any that produce the pulsing patterns, so the presets retain their original flavor, more or less, with the FX unchanged, and esp. since I've still also got the version that doesn't do this:) Thanks for looking, if you ever get a chance to—Same for anybody else!

The notes I'd give it:
PulseLab is an exploration of using modulated mixer levels as an alternative sequencing strategy, used primarily by holding one or several keys down while the patterning reveals itself; takes full advantage of per-voice LFOs, so stagger the note presses to get some interesting phase shifting.

And not incidentally, Vojtech thought it was too hopelessly non-sensical ("Crazy!") for the "Factory"… Mostly, I gathered, because of the GUI (which didn't use bars when he saw it) rather than for the sounds. But I'm guessing. Comments welcome, though it's no longer in the running for submission except possibly to the Exchange.