very interested in autoalign but confused...

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ObsoleteAcc99
Banned
22486 posts since 5 Sep, 2001

Post Sun Nov 09, 2014 12:44 pm

Hi.. it seems i am not the only one by reading the internet LOL!

I will make it simple.. is this plugin only doing time alignment or also frequency specific phase correction?

I am trying to work out if it is for $60, the same thing as BOTH the soundradix auto align and phase interactions PI plugins combined, which are 400 bucks!

I'd much rather spend 60 thanks!

The PI has uses even on electronic music to be inserted on every channel.

Is the Mautoalign only for multi mic acoustic recordings? i.e timing?

Also is there anything waves inphase can do that mautoalign can't?

Cheers!

Edit, will add some info. Ok , PI From what I understand, rotates out of phase frequs while the global timing is preserved, different from delaying the entire signal.

So for example, like PI, can this help improve phase in some cases where there might be a problem where sounds are sharing the same freq range in a busy mix? This is exactly what PI does. The demo was dead easy.

Unfortunately my melda demo for this expired ages ago. Aaaaaaaaaages.

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MeldaProduction
KVRAF
10804 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic

Re: very interested in autoalign but confused...

Post Mon Nov 10, 2014 3:56 am

Hi,

MAutoAlign does NOT do what PI does, it does what the auto align does, but it's much more powerful and easier to use. When it comes to PI, to be honest, it seems not useful at all to me and seems that reviews in various magazines confirmed it. It's an interesting idea, but the results are just not worth it...
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ObsoleteAcc99
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22486 posts since 5 Sep, 2001

Re: very interested in autoalign but confused...

Post Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:11 am

MeldaProduction wrote:Hi,

MAutoAlign does NOT do what PI does, it does what the auto align does, but it's much more powerful and easier to use. When it comes to PI, to be honest, it seems not useful at all to me and seems that reviews in various magazines confirmed it. It's an interesting idea, but the results are just not worth it...

so it's a time aligner. OK.

PI is doing what little labs IBP does but automatically basically.

I think it's very important to have a tool that can correct the phase frequency itself.

So i don't think auto align is the right one for me cause i use mostly on board stuff, not external tracking. Oh well :(

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MeldaProduction
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10804 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic

Re: very interested in autoalign but confused...

Post Mon Nov 10, 2014 9:11 am

Basically MAutoAlign does what the sound radix's auto align, but without any complicated routing and for multiple tracks at once, not just 2...
IBP is in my opinion completely useless thing as well as the Waves' one. You can do the same thing with a few allpass filters and who would spent so much time with it, that's a mystery to me :D. Also, this does not occur in nature. If you record something with multiple mikes, there will only be delay & phase inversion, so allpassing is just wrong and only change the sound character (of course, it may be intentional).

When it comes to mixing & phase inversion, then it would be good to have some tool, that does all that automatically, but sadly PI isn't it. There's no reasonable tool for that on the market, even remotely reasonable... But that's going to change! :D
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ObsoleteAcc99
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22486 posts since 5 Sep, 2001

Re: very interested in autoalign but confused...

Post Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:18 am

MeldaProduction wrote:Basically MAutoAlign does what the sound radix's auto align, but without any complicated routing and for multiple tracks at once, not just 2...
IBP is in my opinion completely useless thing as well as the Waves' one. You can do the same thing with a few allpass filters and who would spent so much time with it, that's a mystery to me :D. Also, this does not occur in nature. If you record something with multiple mikes, there will only be delay & phase inversion, so allpassing is just wrong and only change the sound character (of course, it may be intentional).

When it comes to mixing & phase inversion, then it would be good to have some tool, that does all that automatically, but sadly PI isn't it. There's no reasonable tool for that on the market, even remotely reasonable... But that's going to change! :D

I just got to say, ouch. This turns me off Vojtech, we have talked about this, you continually disrespect competitor's products. This is not a one time thing either. Sure you don't like them but to call them useless is not very nice. Like when you say (for example), your EQ is the best algorithm in the world, and now you claim your synth has the best oscillators in the world..

well, if your programming is THAT good, why does your maximizer to me sound by far, not the best in the world (compared to for example pro L or even barricade), and same with your Mreverb compared to other reverbs I like and use? I am not saying this to be even remotely nasty, I am telling you my opinion. I don't think your plugins are the best in the world, and even with V8 the interfaces still leave quite a bit to be desired IMO.

You have some great plugins, and some great prices, some are overly complex to use IMO, but i don't think everything you make is "the best". Sorry. I know you think they are, and fair enough, they are yours.

Anyway, regardless, i look forward to your PI "killer", and i would of course also like to see sound radix's point of view. i also didn't ask if the waves one was useless, but what yours could do that the waves didn't. Which i didn't get an answer too. I also am watching the auto align video of soundradix and i don't see it being able to only do 2 tracks. So i will investigate further.

As i said my melda 14 days test time is long gone so this is why i created the topic. Anyway...

I am kind of sorry I asked, cause we always seem to have this run in about your stuff being the best.

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MeldaProduction
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10804 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic

Re: very interested in autoalign but confused...

Post Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:48 am

True, sorry about that. I'm just fundamentally honest, and usually too direct :D. Anyway I have my opinions backed up by reviewers in magazines. I personally spent some time testing PI, and even arguing with some customer, who was trying to persuade me "it's great", no luck. Whatever I tried, I never got any improvement from it. From technical point of view I'm not surprised, the idea is nice, but too limiting imho, but who knows...

About sound radix auto align - I never said this one is bad, it in fact works the same way as MAutoAlign. But the problem with it is (or maybe was?) that you needed to add it to a track and send sidechain to it. That's a lot of work, especially for just 2 tracks! Then imagine aligning 8 mikes, that's virtually impossible! Not mentioning you'd need to choose a track to align other to and stuff...
So yes, I'm saying MAutoAlign is the best and everyone is free to try to prove me wrong :D. Sorry, I'm not saying about my own product it is not the best especially if I believe it is.

For the record, I never said that everything from melda is the best! In fact, in many cases it's quite controversial - take MReverb for instance, some people say it's the best, some say it completely sucks :D. And they are not for everyone, they are complex indeed. But for those, who can manage the complexness, I'm fairly sure many of them are indeed the best :). That said, you may not agree, of course. There are endless opinions, especially when it comes to GUI for example...
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ObsoleteAcc99
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22486 posts since 5 Sep, 2001

Re: very interested in autoalign but confused...

Post Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:47 am

MeldaProduction wrote:True, sorry about that. I'm just fundamentally honest, and usually too direct :D. Anyway I have my opinions backed up by reviewers in magazines. I personally spent some time testing PI, and even arguing with some customer, who was trying to persuade me "it's great", no luck. Whatever I tried, I never got any improvement from it. From technical point of view I'm not surprised, the idea is nice, but too limiting imho, but who knows...

About sound radix auto align - I never said this one is bad, it in fact works the same way as MAutoAlign. But the problem with it is (or maybe was?) that you needed to add it to a track and send sidechain to it. That's a lot of work, especially for just 2 tracks! Then imagine aligning 8 mikes, that's virtually impossible! Not mentioning you'd need to choose a track to align other to and stuff...
So yes, I'm saying MAutoAlign is the best and everyone is free to try to prove me wrong :D. Sorry, I'm not saying about my own product it is not the best especially if I believe it is.

For the record, I never said that everything from melda is the best! In fact, in many cases it's quite controversial - take MReverb for instance, some people say it's the best, some say it completely sucks :D. And they are not for everyone, they are complex indeed. But for those, who can manage the complexness, I'm fairly sure many of them are indeed the best :). That said, you may not agree, of course. There are endless opinions, especially when it comes to GUI for example...

Ok, all cool :) I am sorry too. i know you don't "mean" it to be "insulting".

Well, basically just to get it in a nutshell, Mautoalign can't really do anything to help make a mix more mono compatible or correct phase relationships for totally in the box EDM, correct?

For this i have to wait for the future "coming phase fix" plugin. Which i look forward to and will buy on first day of release (hopefully with usual silly melda intro price :D)

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MeldaProduction
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10804 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic

Re: very interested in autoalign but confused...

Post Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:30 pm

Hehe no probs :)

No, MAutoAlign can only fix multi-miked recordings. I'm not sure how it relates to mono compatibility, but the main problem with mixing then (which PI tries to solve) is that different tracks contain the same frequencies with different phase, so they may be cancelling. But it's even worse because of transient bursts. It's a pretty complicated topic, I'm pretty looking forward to cracking it :D, cool challenge :D.
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ObsoleteAcc99
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22486 posts since 5 Sep, 2001

Re: very interested in autoalign but confused...

Post Tue Nov 11, 2014 1:32 pm

MeldaProduction wrote:Hehe no probs :)

No, MAutoAlign can only fix multi-miked recordings. I'm not sure how it relates to mono compatibility, but the main problem with mixing then (which PI tries to solve) is that different tracks contain the same frequencies with different phase, so they may be cancelling. But it's even worse because of transient bursts. It's a pretty complicated topic, I'm pretty looking forward to cracking it :D, cool challenge :D.

These days with synths and fx plugins, everything sounds weird when monitored through mono. even me with only one ear can hear this huge difference. Just playing a patch in one synth in reason, with one effect for example, in an otherwise empty project, and the phase is barely in the + zone. If i press mono button, drastic change in sound.

Sometimes allpass filters like IBP can help in a mix where the mono compatibility is not good.

Which seems to be almost every new plugin these days LOL.

Don't know if PI helps with this as my demo expired 2 years ago and i tried installing latest version but it's still expired and dev is not answering emails regarding a second week trial, so i am not going to just drop 200 bucks on something like that.

I look forward to your solution.

Sure, even if you think PI doesn't work, but release something that is the same principle that DOES work and do what it claims, i am sure it will be VERY popular and talked about for years to come! :D

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MeldaProduction
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10804 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic

Re: very interested in autoalign but confused...

Post Tue Nov 11, 2014 1:50 pm

Hehe, true! The problem is, that the differences between mono and stereo are the things that make it, well, stereo :D. There must be a difference, otherwise it's just mono. For that MStereoSpread really does miracles. But when you have something already, it can indeed be a pain. Didn't really think about accessing this though, interesting point.
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dark-i
KVRist
123 posts since 8 Aug, 2011

Re: very interested in autoalign but confused...

Post Wed Nov 12, 2014 5:38 am

Great topic, very interested in this also. Its been something I've been focusing on the last few weeks.
As TheoM said about the crazy stereo sounds some effects and synth add can be a bit over the top, especially to bass.

I have found myself reducing the stereo image of a lot of sounds and adding, either or a combination of MStereoSpread and MStereoGenerator and have got some amazing results.
I have better results using this combination on bass and kick, you can see how you are effecting the stereo signal and with a few tweeks you can get a real tight and full sound, there is no need to boost the bass frequencys and have found this to help my bass more than any bass enhancing plugins can.

Not so much on higher frequency sounds, but recently I have found with combination of reducing the stereo image, splitting a signal 3 ways, MStereoSpread, MStereoGenerator and panning on each signal can generate some exquisite stereo fields with a good mono compatibility. Its a long winded way but I seem to be getting good results. There would be phase issues but not as extreme.

On sounds clashing and causing phase in a mixdown or bus, I have not really tried much but reducing phase in indivdual sounds has made a big difference to the final mix.
A plugin that could help this would be a big deal.

I would also not fully agree with all of Vojtech statments but I have found this to be true.
MeldaProduction wrote:MStereoSpread really does miracles.
:tu:

typosruinjokes
KVRer
1 posts since 2 Sep, 2016

Re: very interested in autoalign but confused...

Post Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:36 pm

I'm late to this topic, but @meldamusic, don't worry about it. I feel like your comment had almost no malice. And Melda makes some great stuff. But, to be honest, it's kinda ugly. Still, it's pretty rad.

Do you have anything akin to Sound Radix's Pi?

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MeldaProduction
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10804 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic

Re: very interested in autoalign but confused...

Post Sat Sep 03, 2016 6:19 am

I'm afraid not. I checked it once and didn't find it useful at all... But some solution to the phasing problem is planned, but a little more ultimate thing, hopefully :)
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Jedinhopy
KVRian
847 posts since 20 May, 2010

Re: very interested in autoalign but confused...

Post Sat Sep 03, 2016 8:01 am

MeldaProduction wrote:But some solution to the phasing problem is planned, but a little more ultimate thing, hopefully :)
When stereo is summed to mono.

Not only phasing problems exists when decreasing the stereo width.
Especially if one of the L-R channels are detuned and the other stereo channel is not.

tim.benetonn
KVRer
28 posts since 8 Jul, 2017

Re: very interested in autoalign but confused...

Post Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:11 am

Hi Vojtech!
Its a bit old topic but...
Did you find any solution to the phasing problem?

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