3rd party preset design for MSoundFactory

[MeldaProduction]

Hey, so moving here with a discussion, since it needs a separate thread imho .

The plan is: There will be the default preset every preset designer will start with, plus a few rules simple enough to follow. This way the designers jump in, open the default preset, remove effects if needed, but other than that everything will be prepared compatible with other presets. The generator section would be empty, so they could start designing with everything else done for them.

When it comes to licencing - I want to include some sort of management system, that would allow people to install the big stuff (samples) wherever they want and if it is a commercial pack, some sort of licence management. At the moment I don't plan a free version, like Kontakt player, but instead some very cheap version, that wouldn't allow people go to the edit screen. And unlike with Kontakt preset designers wouldn't pay any fee to us, so it would be better for them to go with us.

Thoughts would be welcome . It's all a matter of planning right now

[Tagirijus]

No detailled thoughts here, but an opinion: I like the idea.

[dmbaer]

When it comes to licencing - I want to include some sort of management system, that would allow people to install the big stuff (samples) wherever they want and if it is a commercial pack, some sort of licence management. At the moment I don't plan a free version, like Kontakt player, but instead some very cheap version, that wouldn't allow people go to the edit screen. And unlike with Kontakt preset designers wouldn't pay any fee to us, so it would be better for them to go with us.

This is a very wise choice of direction, IMO. I would add one requirement: the ability for sound developers to encrypt samples. Being able to protect their IP (intellectual property) should be an important factor in choosing to develop content for MSF.

One other thing, just in case anybody missed it. The fact that an LE version will not be able to go into Edit mode means that all essential parameters for usage (like tuning even though rarely changed) must be accessible in the LE version, since Edit will not be accessible.

[werzel]

Does that mean that commercial packs will only open in the LE version? (Thus protecting the "Intellectual Property")

[Chandlerhimself]

I like the idea of a light version with no edit screen. I think this will help bring in more people who just want unique sounds, but don’t care about programming.

As dmbaer said there is a problem with controls now. As I said before some of the advanced global parameters need to be moved off the easy screen and into the settings menu(or a new menu). Without access to the edit screen, each preset will need these parameters in addition to what’s already on the global tab.

Quality
Rendering Quality
Load tuning(no param exsists for this yet)
Default tuning(same as above)
Max voices
Enable sustain pedal
Enable volume&pan midi
Follow velocity
Pressure
Pitch bend
Modulation wheel
Timbre
Breath
Expression
note-off

Many of those could really use 3 controls instead of 1, but even with just that there are 15 controls you’d have to add. Most of those aren’t important for me, but for someone with an MPE controller they might be. IMO that is way too many parameters. Of course you could always just say “get the full version if you need alternate tunings and midi CC adjustment”.

[operator]

One other thing, just in case anybody missed it. The fact that an LE version will not be able to go into Edit mode means that all essential parameters for usage (like tuning even though rarely changed) must be accessible in the LE version, since Edit will not be accessible.

The Preset-Designer should know which parameter is worth tweaking and complements a pleasent outcome, therefore only those paramters should be displayed. If the preset is directed to a playable sound (psy-lead, throat-singing, sitar, etc.) it would be benefitial if essential parameters are displayed... but with Drums, SFX and atonal noises in mind (Impact, Percussion, Transformer-Sounds) the term "essential parameters" becomes rather relative... in an Impact sound it might be much more useful to display Filter and Reverb settings than Pitch control.. (only my opinion)

for example: Alchemy had such a "player-version" aswell. it only had a few macros and XY Pads. Due to the limitation only few paramters could be changed... (and pitch wasn´t always one of them..)

Please correct me if i´m wrong... (never used this CA-Alchemy player thingy)

[Fourstepper]

Operator is right imo. At least I like his idea a lot anyways...

[dmbaer]

Does that mean that commercial packs will only open in the LE version? (Thus protecting the "Intellectual Property")

By no means. Consider Kontakt. Even with the full version (which is required for using countless numbers of lower-priced third-party library offerings), the ability to open a library does not mean you can lift the sample content out and re-purpose it elsewhere.

If this is done right, owners of the LE version would be incentivized to upgrade to the full version. And third party library developers would be incentivized to hop on board because they'd have a potentially huge base of MSF owners eager for additional content. Limiting third party offerings to the LE version would be contrary to both those goals.

[Chandlerhimself]

operator - I generally agree, but I think dmbaer is talking about technical things that the preset designer really can’t know. For example someone might need to adjust the response of their breath controller, but how can a preset designer know if you have a breath controller or not? Of course for a drum sound you don’t need it, but for most other things you do. Max voices is another example, the preset designer can’t guess how many notes you want to play or how powerful your computer is.

[masitito]

A preset designer could ship the preset a custom theme for her plugin. So it could get also visually a unique touch.

The user OTOH should be able to control if he allows the custom theme to be used. Ideally this would be able on a per preset level.

Masi

[MeldaProduction]

- 3rd party instruments should indeed work in the full version too of course. I'm not sure about looking at the internal stuff. I actually think Kontakt lets you look into that. And it could be a cool thing after all - users of the full version could alter how the instrument really works. But that doesn't mean they could export samples from it.

- Samples - of course everything would be somehow encrypted in some sort of multisample files, proprietary format. Needless to say, everything can be hacked. But I don't think it would matter too much, for 99.999% people it's always better to buy the instrument, than spending tons of hours by setting up the samples. And for hackers it is easier to crack the software itself than cracking a sample library, which would only get the samples and that's all, that's no victory .

- Globals - Chandler, you are pushing a lot for these, but I actually don't want to include them on the edit screen. There are solutions in most DAWs for adusting controllers etc., and tuning and such advanced stuff makes it logical only for the edit screen imho. Anyways we can still extend the globals for each active preset, but that's in a different topic here

[MeldaProduction]

A preset designer could ship the preset a custom theme for her plugin. So it could get also visually a unique touch.

The user OTOH should be able to control if he allows the custom theme to be used. Ideally this would be able on a per preset level.

Masi

That's very unlikely I'm afraid though Masi, sorry.

[masitito]

Could it be possible for a user of MSF LE to chain additional FX like you can do with UVI Workstation instruments?

BTW, do you plan any restricts on the instruments (presets) or MSF LE so that no one can distribute instruments that virtually unlock the standard plugins?

Masi

[operator]

Max voices is another example, the preset designer can’t guess how many notes you want to play or how powerful your computer is.

I would suggest that Active Presets should be designed arround some average settings --> e.g all should have the same dB/Loudness and being more or less in the same "CPU usage" range/bandwidth (this would include the voices)...

and the voice-setting is something you only would tweak once... therefore it isn´t that much more clicks to go into edit/show advancedsettings/change voice option --> and back...
on the other side there are some parameters which needs to be adjusted very often or work in relation to each other and need to be on the easy screen... voices is just a minor option and shouldn´t be included in the easy screen sakes simplicity...

[Chandlerhimself]

Meldaproduction - I actually don’t want them on the edit screen either. I’d rather them not be on the edit or easy screen. My point is there are many parameters that shouldn’t be saved with the preset and it may cause problems later. For example a velocity response lock will cause some presets to work improperly. Maybe the other things aren’t a problem though. My computer is fairly fast, I don’t have an MPE controller and I never use alternate tunings, so I don’t know how people feel about them. Maybe all those settings don’t matter to people and they never get used. If they can be changed through the DAW then its fine.

operator - I actually agree that voices shouldn’t be on the easy screen. All of these should be in a settings menu and not included in the presets. If there is a MSF LE people won’t be able to go into the edit screen and adjust the number of voices, alternate tunings, etc. Besides that you wouldn’t just adjust the voices once, you’d adjust it for each new preset as you’re browsing.

To be clear I don’t think the parameters I listed above should be on the easy or edit screen. I think they should be user adjustable and not linked to the presets. I also don’t want them to take up space on the easy screen. I think a new solution that doesn’t waste GUI space, allows the user to adjust parameters and keeps the same values even when a preset is changed would be better than what is available now.