Chemeleon's "My Imaginary Friend" - building on 2 decades of experience constructing songs

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experimental.crow
KVRAF
6161 posts since 9 Mar, 2003 from the bridge of sighs

Post Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:54 pm

i'm w/ wags on a few technical issues ;
too loud ... slammed against the limiter , in many places ...
capricious panning , to the point of distraction ...
all of this kicked me into early ear fatigue ...

that's a shame , as there is quite a bit of detail that falls by the wayside ...
i quite like the composition(s) , in general ...
this is some inventive work ...

a quieter , more deliberate mix would serve you well here ...
spend some time w/ your EQ ... some surgery required ...
define some spaces , and let the vocals and instrumentation compliment each other ...
Image

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wagtunes
KVRAF
18157 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Chemeleon's "My Imaginary Friend" - building on 2 decades of experience constructing songs

Post Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:04 pm

experimental.crow wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:54 pm
i'm w/ wags on a few technical issues ;
too loud ... slammed against the limiter , in many places ...
capricious panning , to the point of distraction ...
all of this kicked me into early ear fatigue ...

that's a shame , as there is quite a bit of detail that falls by the wayside ...
i quite like the composition(s) , in general ...
this is some inventive work ...

a quieter , more deliberate mix would serve you well here ...
spend some time w/ your EQ ... some surgery required ...
define some spaces , and let the vocals and instrumentation compliment each other ...
Thank you. So it's not just me. Yes, I forgot about some of that panning. Tough listening with headphones.

I get that we're in an age where we have to be politically correct, but we do nobody any good if we don't point out how things can maybe be a little better. Crow, you actually explained the core problems very well. I hope the OP will take your words to heart.

andrelafosse
KVRist
277 posts since 18 Jun, 2010

Re: Chemeleon's "My Imaginary Friend" - building on 2 decades of experience constructing songs

Post Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:18 am

Really sorry the OP has to deal with what he does... and really struck/impressed/moved by the work he's been able to shape from those experiences.

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vurt
addled muppet weed
58784 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: Chemeleon's "My Imaginary Friend" - building on 2 decades of experience constructing songs

Post Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:19 am

wagtunes wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:04 pm
experimental.crow wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:54 pm
i'm w/ wags on a few technical issues ;
too loud ... slammed against the limiter , in many places ...
capricious panning , to the point of distraction ...
all of this kicked me into early ear fatigue ...

that's a shame , as there is quite a bit of detail that falls by the wayside ...
i quite like the composition(s) , in general ...
this is some inventive work ...

a quieter , more deliberate mix would serve you well here ...
spend some time w/ your EQ ... some surgery required ...
define some spaces , and let the vocals and instrumentation compliment each other ...
Thank you. So it's not just me. Yes, I forgot about some of that panning. Tough listening with headphones.

I get that we're in an age where we have to be politically correct, but we do nobody any good if we don't point out how things can maybe be a little better. Crow, you actually explained the core problems very well. I hope the OP will take your words to heart.
i totally agree, there are things that could be improved...
that said, theres a certain authenticity to this, that all that polish might kill. sometimes, i like rough, raw and even clueless about audio, productions.
it's not about "political correctness" it's about mojo.
and sometimes too much spit n shine can kill the nature of the beast :D

the vocals could be clearer in parts, as theres a message in there, but maybe there is artistic reasons for the placement?

but I stand by my initial comment that ithouroughly enjoyed it.

(no headphones here, maybe that might have been a different feeling?)

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wagtunes
KVRAF
18157 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Chemeleon's "My Imaginary Friend" - building on 2 decades of experience constructing songs

Post Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:34 am

vurt wrote: ↑
Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:19 am
wagtunes wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:04 pm
experimental.crow wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:54 pm
i'm w/ wags on a few technical issues ;
too loud ... slammed against the limiter , in many places ...
capricious panning , to the point of distraction ...
all of this kicked me into early ear fatigue ...

that's a shame , as there is quite a bit of detail that falls by the wayside ...
i quite like the composition(s) , in general ...
this is some inventive work ...

a quieter , more deliberate mix would serve you well here ...
spend some time w/ your EQ ... some surgery required ...
define some spaces , and let the vocals and instrumentation compliment each other ...
Thank you. So it's not just me. Yes, I forgot about some of that panning. Tough listening with headphones.

I get that we're in an age where we have to be politically correct, but we do nobody any good if we don't point out how things can maybe be a little better. Crow, you actually explained the core problems very well. I hope the OP will take your words to heart.
i totally agree, there are things that could be improved...
that said, theres a certain authenticity to this, that all that polish might kill. sometimes, i like rough, raw and even clueless about audio, productions.
it's not about "political correctness" it's about mojo.
and sometimes too much spit n shine can kill the nature of the beast :D

the vocals could be clearer in parts, as theres a message in there, but maybe there is artistic reasons for the placement?

but I stand by my initial comment that ithouroughly enjoyed it.

(no headphones here, maybe that might have been a different feeling?)
Well, you know what? I refer you to my own music. Read some of the nit pick comments. Too much reverb on the vocals, too much quantize, not enough quantize, guitars sound fake, vocals off key. And I could go on and on. If I corrected or removed everything that everybody complained about with my own music, I'd end up with 4'33".

Just saying. It seems I'm not afforded the same "artistic expression" as other people here. And you know what? That's fine. If people want to critique me on the level of a "pop record suitable for radio" which admittedly has ridiculously high standards, I can deal with that, especially since that's ultimately what I'm going for. I'm still smart enough to know that I'm never going to be a Max Martin. In fact, I marvel at his productions. I have no clue how he makes his records sound like that and I doubt I'm ever going to learn.

But getting back to your comment, yes, it's possible that refining the mixes of these songs may remove some of their charm. There is no way to know until you actually do it. I do know I hate some of the digitally remastered stuff of old 60s and 70s songs. They sound sterile and lifeless. So believe me, I understand how perfection can ruin something.

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vurt
addled muppet weed
58784 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: Chemeleon's "My Imaginary Friend" - building on 2 decades of experience constructing songs

Post Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:46 am

regards your stuff, i comment with a view that i have an idea what you are trying to achieve.
you have asked enough questions and posted enough, of both your own music and your influences, that there is a target.

here, i can only judge it on the original post and some similarish reference points from my collection.
although, there is nothing that is the same as a whole, i do have bits it brought to mind, and judged from that point.
had it been regular pop id have had issues with the mix for sure, but it isnt.

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wagtunes
KVRAF
18157 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Chemeleon's "My Imaginary Friend" - building on 2 decades of experience constructing songs

Post Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:50 am

vurt wrote: ↑
Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:46 am
regards your stuff, i comment with a view that i have an idea what you are trying to achieve.
you have asked enough questions and posted enough, of both your own music and your influences, that there is a target.

here, i can only judge it on the original post and some similarish reference points from my collection.
although, there is nothing that is the same as a whole, i do have bits it brought to mind, and judged from that point.
had it been regular pop id have had issues with the mix for sure, but it isnt.
So then I'm correct in assuming I'm being critiqued on what it is I'm going for (a pop production)

If so, then I should rightfully be torn to shreds as I'm no Max Martin.

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el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
15515 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: Chemeleon's "My Imaginary Friend" - building on 2 decades of experience constructing songs

Post Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:54 am

vurt wrote: ↑
Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:19 am
theres a certain authenticity to this, that all that polish might kill. sometimes, i like rough, raw and even clueless about audio, productions.
it's not about "political correctness" it's about mojo.
and sometimes too much spit n shine can kill the nature of the beast :D
This!

I've yet to listen in headphones, but I plan to (I want to be able to give it my undivided attention). But listening to it piecemeal, so far i can honestly say I wouldn't change a thing.

After reading Chemeleon's introduction, I can't imagine how it would've sounded any different. Slammed, claustrophobic, distorted, grimy, manic etc., is what I'd expect, and that's what it is. But it's not just non-distinct noise, either. There are some really stunning moments - Like, tons of them.

I wouldn't change a single thing, especially not the vocals. Great to be able to discover the odd phrase in different moments. I would like to know what is being said, but I'd rather read it.

Sure, at times it might be a bit hard to listen to, but I imagine that pales in comparison to how hard it was to make.

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vurt
addled muppet weed
58784 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: Chemeleon's "My Imaginary Friend" - building on 2 decades of experience constructing songs

Post Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:57 am

well, there are different aspects of pop.
my favourite pop producer is joe meek, even over all the major names, like george martin or phil spector.
and your writing style is more classic pop than modern pop, so im not going to judge you against katy perry im sorry.

also, im a carrot not a stick kinda guy. will do my best to encourage rather than tear strips off anyone.
have dealt with a lot of foster siblings with issues over the years, and now it's my go to response in any situation :shrug:

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vurt
addled muppet weed
58784 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: Chemeleon's "My Imaginary Friend" - building on 2 decades of experience constructing songs

Post Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:01 pm

el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote: ↑
Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:54 am
vurt wrote: ↑
Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:19 am
theres a certain authenticity to this, that all that polish might kill. sometimes, i like rough, raw and even clueless about audio, productions.
it's not about "political correctness" it's about mojo.
and sometimes too much spit n shine can kill the nature of the beast :D
This!

I've yet to listen in headphones, but I plan to (I want to be able to give it my undivided attention). But listening to it piecemeal, so far i can honestly say I wouldn't change a thing.

After reading Chemeleon's introduction, I can't imagine how it would've sounded any different. Slammed, claustrophobic, distorted, grimy, manic etc., is what I'd expect, and that's what it is. But it's not just non-distinct noise, either. There are some really stunning moments - Like, tons of them.

I wouldn't change a single thing, especially not the vocals. Great to be able to discover the odd phrase in different moments. I would like to know what is being said, but I'd rather read it.

Sure, at times it might be a bit hard to listen to, but I imagine that pales in comparison to how hard it was to make.
i felt that was by design, similar to some jandek recordings, it's like trying to help people understand how he feels inside. or maybe "force" them to feel it?

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el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
15515 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: Chemeleon's "My Imaginary Friend" - building on 2 decades of experience constructing songs

Post Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:17 pm

vurt wrote: ↑
Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:01 pm
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote: ↑
Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:54 am
vurt wrote: ↑
Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:19 am
theres a certain authenticity to this, that all that polish might kill. sometimes, i like rough, raw and even clueless about audio, productions.
it's not about "political correctness" it's about mojo.
and sometimes too much spit n shine can kill the nature of the beast :D
This!

I've yet to listen in headphones, but I plan to (I want to be able to give it my undivided attention). But listening to it piecemeal, so far i can honestly say I wouldn't change a thing.

After reading Chemeleon's introduction, I can't imagine how it would've sounded any different. Slammed, claustrophobic, distorted, grimy, manic etc., is what I'd expect, and that's what it is. But it's not just non-distinct noise, either. There are some really stunning moments - Like, tons of them.

I wouldn't change a single thing, especially not the vocals. Great to be able to discover the odd phrase in different moments. I would like to know what is being said, but I'd rather read it.

Sure, at times it might be a bit hard to listen to, but I imagine that pales in comparison to how hard it was to make.
i felt that was by design, similar to some jandek recordings, it's like trying to help people understand how he feels inside. or maybe "force" them to feel it?
Yes! (Had a change of heart and edited my previous thoughts)

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vurt
addled muppet weed
58784 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: Chemeleon's "My Imaginary Friend" - building on 2 decades of experience constructing songs

Post Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:26 pm

maybe that's it, because weve both been there,theres something we "get" that others might not?

but yes, to the chemeleon, maybe not exactly the same things, but you are not alone :hug:
and there are some better times here n there :)

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vurt
addled muppet weed
58784 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: Chemeleon's "My Imaginary Friend" - building on 2 decades of experience constructing songs

Post Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:27 pm

dammit elbo :o :tantrum: :lol:

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el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
15515 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: Chemeleon's "My Imaginary Friend" - building on 2 decades of experience constructing songs

Post Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:29 pm

vurt wrote: ↑
Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:26 pm
maybe that's it, because weve both been there,theres something we "get" that others might not?

but yes, to the chemeleon, maybe not exactly the same things, but you are not alone :hug:
and there are some better times here n there :)
Ah, you got there first. I thought better about my post, for various reasons. Now it all seems a little weird.

User avatar
el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
15515 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: Chemeleon's "My Imaginary Friend" - building on 2 decades of experience constructing songs

Post Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:30 pm

vurt wrote: ↑
Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:27 pm
dammit elbo :o :tantrum: :lol:
Sorry, man. Thought better about revealing details about others. Wish I'd not deleted it now. Sorry :hug:

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