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thomekk wrote: Fri Apr 02, 2021 10:04 pm
ChameleonMusic wrote: Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:42 pm
thomekk wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:26 pm :lol: well done.
All klischees of this sort of contemporary compo-style were fitted in very well. :tu:
Just had to stop, when the unavoidable epic choir broke in
Thanks Thomas - I occasionally write this sort of 'cheesy' stuff...why? Because I can sell it!

It's very much a little stale now, the 'epic trailer' style but it still needs 'composing' if you know what I mean!?

I think It's time though for some more varied ideas in the blockbuster film music world...a return to a few more electronic or hybrid scores or something a little more leftfield? Nice if more directors went out on a limb and took a few more chances with the music?
Mark, I did not want to sound harsh or so, sorry. Was just a spontaneous reaction I guess.
And part of my perception of this kind of movie score music. Which you managed to do well.
And yeah, I know of course that it is work to make something like that, no doubt!

I see myself here often more as a listener or better (as it is the case with movies it's underscoring/commenting) movie watcher, who has to bear this kind of stuff - and very often it is annoying me, because of the klischees it is carrying out. I really do see me in this case more as a consumer, who wants to have a good movie... and often the repeatetedly bombastic score gets me out - and that's not ideal.
Don't want to open the "old movie music vs. new movie music" can, but yeah, I like the old movie music more (not that all of it has been good, but most seems more colourful - maybe because there was more freedom for the composers :)

And yeah, I've seen lots of movies with that kind of epic stuff. All those epic ingredients seem indeed to me sort of stale - as the years go by.

I don't have an idea for what could be better... only - as you mention - if the directors would took more "risk" to let more colourful, maybe "leftfield" or whatever it should be called, alternative styles, ideas, freedom let go for the composers.
What I learned so far from others, who do stuff for trailers and movies, is more on the opposite side - not much time, the job has to be done, composer as part of the team, sometimes the last in the chain with not much range to act autonomous.
Which is the case, I guess.

But this should not forbid a consumer disliking how that cheesy music sounds. Not subtile and just a foreign matter (to me in some of those movies). Of course it is hard work nevertheless 8)
Thomas - nothing you said came across as at all harsh in any way whatsoever! :)

The one big problem with these forums is that the written word can be quite clunky at times, but there are plenty of people on here (including yourself) that I'm very comfortable with and know that they always feedback in a well meaning way!

Having had a 12 month break from KVR, it does seem generally more friendly and positive at the moment...couple of years ago it was much too dominated by negative, insulting, petty idiots at times! (There will always be some element of that, but it is very much a rarity at the moment from my experience. Moderation seems much tighter as well).
Mark Taylor, Chameleon Music - Professional composition and sound design for all media since 1994.

https://www.chameleonmusic.co.uk/

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layzer wrote: Fri Apr 02, 2021 3:47 am epic.
this had sufficient wagbell
even for its short length. :tu:
If it's got sufficient WAGBELL, then all is good! :)

Thanks for having a listen.
Mark Taylor, Chameleon Music - Professional composition and sound design for all media since 1994.

https://www.chameleonmusic.co.uk/

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ChameleonMusic wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:49 pm Thomas - nothing you said came across as at all harsh in any way whatsoever! :)

The one big problem with these forums is that the written word can be quite clunky at times, but there are plenty of people on here (including yourself) that I'm very comfortable with and know that they always feedback in a well meaning way!

Having had a 12 month break from KVR, it does seem generally more friendly and positive at the moment...couple of years ago it was much too dominated by negative, insulting, petty idiots at times! (There will always be some element of that, but it is very much a rarity at the moment from my experience. Moderation seems much tighter as well).
:wink: no worries, ok then.

I'm still interested in the discourse concerning all that epic shitz and why it is still so dominating.
Not easy to have answers to this obviously
Symphony Nr.1
Meet the Cities Repair Team Unimportant laughter
music has become meaningless...we just keep doing it

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thomekk wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:28 pm
ChameleonMusic wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:49 pm Thomas - nothing you said came across as at all harsh in any way whatsoever! :)

The one big problem with these forums is that the written word can be quite clunky at times, but there are plenty of people on here (including yourself) that I'm very comfortable with and know that they always feedback in a well meaning way!

Having had a 12 month break from KVR, it does seem generally more friendly and positive at the moment...couple of years ago it was much too dominated by negative, insulting, petty idiots at times! (There will always be some element of that, but it is very much a rarity at the moment from my experience. Moderation seems much tighter as well).
:wink: no worries, ok then.

I'm still interested in the discourse concerning all that epic shitz and why it is still so dominating.
Not easy to have answers to this obviously
I think change in film music moves very slowly simply because when something is proven to work with an audience the directors are pressurized into sticking with it by those who fund the projects...especially at the top of the tree where there is so much money involved!

It's always been that way to a certain extent:

Silent Movies with their 'In House' live music were probably slightly different as there was very little central control as such , but from 1930s onwards there has always been some sort of commercial edge to the choice of music in the 'big' films.

'THE GOLDEN AGE' (1930 – 1950s)
Dominated by composers with backgrounds in concert music, and almost exclusively uses orchestral pieces...Max Steiner; Enrich Korngold (Who John Williams ripped off a few times in Star Wars); Bernard Hermann.

They absolutely dominated the scene for 20 years.

New Ideas (1950s)
A Streetcar Named Desire features a hybrid symphonic-jazz score - sudden change of direction

High Noon features the song “Oh My Darling,” which proves very successful commercially.

Miles Davis’ music to the French noir film 'Elevator to the Gallows' was a huge moment with its trio of jazz musicians improvising to the screen.

And on and on it goes towards the present day where I think in one way ( for the past 20 years or so) we have benefitted from all of the ideas that have gone before in that ANYTHING GOES at times now, but...

We also suffer from the now HUGE amount of money involved in producing a film nand the fear of financial failure.

There have been some really interesting high profile 'more unusual' music scores - Loved the sound of JOKER and a few years ago loved the industrial edge to DREDD...there are others as well, but...

SUPERHERO films simply dominate the current market and they continue to use overly bombastic, orchestral / hybrid orchestral scores that seriously lack subtlety and originality...they were great at first, but, for me, have now run out of GOOD ideas at times?!
Last edited by ChameleonMusic on Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mark Taylor, Chameleon Music - Professional composition and sound design for all media since 1994.

https://www.chameleonmusic.co.uk/

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The Star Wars thievery was perhaps unavoidable, as Lucas was very married to a temp score and the thing does not seem to have moved far from that.

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Very film-theme dramatic - wish I could do that :tu:
It wasn't me! (well, actually, it probably was) - apparently now an 'elderly' so maybe I forgot!

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jancivil wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:35 pm The Star Wars thievery was perhaps unavoidable, as Lucas was very married to a temp score and the thing does not seem to have moved far from that.
That is all too often the case - very true!

Lucas put huge pressure on Williams to write almost identically to the TEMP SCORE - I think it was a tricky situation, but Williams was not established enough at the time to do anything about it + let's be honest...Lucas had the basics nailed in terms of what worked with the visuals!!! :)

Spielberg is known for doing the same thing in many films as well!

John Williams VERSUS Enrich Korngold

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V47enEvsafQ

You could do the same in that film for Stravinsky's Rite of Spring / Tchaikovsky / Holst and a few others! The Stravinsky one is possibly the most striking...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX945NlXkEA

For those who don't know - it's still very normal procedure in the film industry (and with other media) for the director to create a temporary score full of guiding ideas for the composer who usually arrives on the creative scene very late in on the process!

In my own tiny corner of the composing universe, I get it all the time with the live theatre productions that I mainly compose for...and some of the ideas are often weird beyond belief...Celtic Punk Rock morphed with Romantic orchestral music in the style of Mendlesohn was one of my weirdest suggestions from a director! :) I convinced him otherwise! :)
Mark Taylor, Chameleon Music - Professional composition and sound design for all media since 1994.

https://www.chameleonmusic.co.uk/

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folderol wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:57 pm Very film-theme dramatic - wish I could do that :tu:
Thanks for taking time to listen and feedback - appreciated!
Mark Taylor, Chameleon Music - Professional composition and sound design for all media since 1994.

https://www.chameleonmusic.co.uk/

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"I convinced him otherwise!"
I don't think I'm cut out for that business. I did a job once for a personal demo, a little "reel" as it were where the focus was mechanical adding machines, a guy describing them as he ran them, so there is a very prevalent sound to it, and their rhythm. This guy had an idea of music with a beat somehow going with this, so he was looking for a percussionist. I don't think I could do that on time (ca 24 hrs) if at all, because the rhythm of the machines was irregular and spastic (so even if the idea was ok, a pulse and these are cross-rhythms would take hell of time or just sound, the technical term I believe is 'f**ked-up'). I did what I did with the rhythm, completely abstruse, so he only ever called me back once after that (and weirdly he wanted to see if I could be the dadgum video editor).

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jancivil wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:07 pm "I convinced him otherwise!"
I don't think I'm cut out for that business. I did a job once for a personal demo, a little "reel" as it were where the focus was mechanical adding machines, a guy describing them as he ran them, so there is a very prevalent sound to it, and their rhythm. This guy had an idea of music with a beat somehow going with this, so he was looking for a percussionist. I don't think I could do that on time (ca 24 hrs) if at all, because the rhythm of the machines was irregular and spastic (so even if the idea was ok, a pulse and these are cross-rhythms would take hell of time or just sound, the technical term I believe is 'f**ked-up'). I did what I did with the rhythm, completely abstruse, so he only ever called me back once after that (and weirdly he wanted to see if I could be the dadgum video editor).
Ha! Doesn't always go that well with directors... Sometimes I just have to muddle through their ridiculous ideas... Sometimes they simply give no initial ideas and then when you sketch out some draft music they are suddenly full of suggestions - mainly regarding how your music isn't quite what they want! You ask what they do require... And they don't really know is the truth!

It's just totally different with each one, but usually works it's way to some sort of successful conclusion! 😂

Did a soundtrack for a post-Shakespeare play at the Edinburgh Festival some years back. Here's what the director requested initially:

"Hi Mark, I definitely want something minimalist and orchestral - do you know the work of Glass? Light, but with intense moments and with enough material that it can also be used in various forms as underscoring? Does that make sense?"

So I dutifully created a 4 minute theme with arpeggiated, rolling chamber strings under a smooth oboe melody... Plenty of gradual rise and fall blah, blah and sent it over to him... Here's the response:

" That's great Mark, just like Glass and spot on for what I asked, but sorry, having talked it all though now in rehearsals we have decided that maybe something more pop is actually going to work best. Do you know New Wave music - retro 1980s electro pop?"

I replied politely, but I'm not quite sure how I managed it! 😭
Mark Taylor, Chameleon Music - Professional composition and sound design for all media since 1994.

https://www.chameleonmusic.co.uk/

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Yikes. Yeah, his idea was Bjork or Yellow Magic Orchestra. I promised no such thing. He mixed it way down too. After paying me a hundred dollars or something to do the mix with the VO in post. The wag dogs the bell.

Glass did a film score once that I know of, and it is some of the weirdest music I have ever heard. It wasn't the expectation but kind of a funhouse mirrors on acid Philip Glass.

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Had no idea you were a Hanz Zimmer. Joking aside...a great score. Full of emotion and energy.

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jancivil wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:51 pm Yikes. Yeah, his idea was Bjork or Yellow Magic Orchestra. I promised no such thing. He mixed it way down too. After paying me a hundred dollars or something to do the mix with the VO in post. The wag dogs the bell.

Glass did a film score once that I know of, and it is some of the weirdest music I have ever heard. It wasn't the expectation but kind of a funhouse mirrors on acid Philip Glass.
Yeah, Glass has done a few film scores in quite a variety of styles...some harking more back to the golden age of Steiner and co...not minimalist at all!

North Star (1977) - that might be the one you're thinking of, maybe...quite a weird sonic palette at times!?
Mark Taylor, Chameleon Music - Professional composition and sound design for all media since 1994.

https://www.chameleonmusic.co.uk/

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mindstuff wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:56 pm Had no idea you were a Hanz Zimmer. Joking aside...a great score. Full of emotion and energy.
Thanks for the listen and feedback - much appreciated!

"Hans Zimmer / emotion and energy" - please listen again...anytime! :) :D
Mark Taylor, Chameleon Music - Professional composition and sound design for all media since 1994.

https://www.chameleonmusic.co.uk/

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it was a fiction film. I have no idea, none of the films I see ring a bell. it wasn't the sonic palette, it was the harmonies and the rhythm

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