As I get the mechanics of RC down, now, I would like some advice on how to implement RC into larger complex projects. I am using Reaper for the DAW, and I understand all the routing for it. (larger projects means multiple libraries, like Sample Tank, East West, Garitan, VCSO, etc.)
What I don't know, is what is the limit of RC as for tracks?
What is the best way to approach large projects? Stand alone, routing midi through to Reaper and routed in Reaper accordingly?
or-
Using multiple VST copies of RC? (if so, breaking down a composition down to sub projects?)
I am thinking big, like more than 48 tracks too.. (but, probably under 64)
Or would be easier just to model all the midi and build a library for later drag and drop?
I am just trying to get an idea of the best way to create a work flow..
Tips for working with large projects
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1858 posts since 15 May, 2017
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- KVRAF
- 1782 posts since 10 Mar, 2004
Hi,
if i understand correctly
-you want to create (lets say 64 max) "fixed" channels/instruments template
-RC Standalone connected via Virtual Midi to your DAW (Reaper)
in this scenario:
1- you need a Virtual Midi Driver that has multiple ports!
one port means 16 midi channel so 16 instruments in your Reaper
i have LoopBe30 (30 ports) works good so far.
http://nerds.de/en/loopbe30.html
i believe there is also free ones that offer multiple ports..
CopperLan for example: http://www.copperlan.org/
anyway...
lets assume LoopBe30 installed already
now preparing the RC and Reaper Templates
here is what i would do:
A--Reaper Side
-Create 4 tracks and define the Midi inputs
Track1 = Right Click to RecArm button / Input: MIDI / 1. Internal MIDI/All Channels
Track2 = Right Click to RecArm button / Input: MIDI / 2. Internal MIDI/All Channels
Track3 = Right Click to RecArm button / Input: MIDI / 3. Internal MIDI/All Channels
Track4 = Right Click to RecArm button / Input: MIDI / 4. Internal MIDI/All Channels
rename them Receiver1, Receiver2 .. Receiver4 ...to recognize them easily from the rest of the instrument tracks..
this 4 tracks will be our Midi Receiver tracks from RC in the Reaper...
when everything is done (Reaper and RC templates i mean)
you need only activate this 4 track's Rec Arms not the whole 64 tracks Rec Arms ..
(activating 64 tracks recarms at same time causes horrible glitches in my pc this is the way/workaround i found )
now...
Start to add your instruments for example String Section
-Basses
-Cellos
-Violas
-Violins1
-Violins2
so on
lets use Receiver1 as Strings Midi input
assign Receiver1's
Midi Channel 1 to the Basses
Midi Channel 2 to the Cellos
Midi Channel 3 to the Violas...so on.
let's assume we prepared all 64 channels
Strings + WWinds + Brass + pianos etc.
Save Reaper project as Template.
B--RC Side
actually less complex than the Reaper just add tracks and define the Midi Out Ports and the Channels in Track Inspector
and Name them according to the Instruments in the Reaper and save as RC Template
one more step if you wish you can save RC Tracks as Track Template to add them one by one when you need.
i hope it helps.
if i understand correctly
-you want to create (lets say 64 max) "fixed" channels/instruments template
-RC Standalone connected via Virtual Midi to your DAW (Reaper)
in this scenario:
1- you need a Virtual Midi Driver that has multiple ports!
one port means 16 midi channel so 16 instruments in your Reaper
i have LoopBe30 (30 ports) works good so far.
http://nerds.de/en/loopbe30.html
i believe there is also free ones that offer multiple ports..
CopperLan for example: http://www.copperlan.org/
anyway...
lets assume LoopBe30 installed already
now preparing the RC and Reaper Templates
here is what i would do:
A--Reaper Side
-Create 4 tracks and define the Midi inputs
Track1 = Right Click to RecArm button / Input: MIDI / 1. Internal MIDI/All Channels
Track2 = Right Click to RecArm button / Input: MIDI / 2. Internal MIDI/All Channels
Track3 = Right Click to RecArm button / Input: MIDI / 3. Internal MIDI/All Channels
Track4 = Right Click to RecArm button / Input: MIDI / 4. Internal MIDI/All Channels
rename them Receiver1, Receiver2 .. Receiver4 ...to recognize them easily from the rest of the instrument tracks..
this 4 tracks will be our Midi Receiver tracks from RC in the Reaper...
when everything is done (Reaper and RC templates i mean)
you need only activate this 4 track's Rec Arms not the whole 64 tracks Rec Arms ..
(activating 64 tracks recarms at same time causes horrible glitches in my pc this is the way/workaround i found )
now...
Start to add your instruments for example String Section
-Basses
-Cellos
-Violas
-Violins1
-Violins2
so on
lets use Receiver1 as Strings Midi input
assign Receiver1's
Midi Channel 1 to the Basses
Midi Channel 2 to the Cellos
Midi Channel 3 to the Violas...so on.
let's assume we prepared all 64 channels
Strings + WWinds + Brass + pianos etc.
Save Reaper project as Template.
B--RC Side
actually less complex than the Reaper just add tracks and define the Midi Out Ports and the Channels in Track Inspector
and Name them according to the Instruments in the Reaper and save as RC Template
one more step if you wish you can save RC Tracks as Track Template to add them one by one when you need.
i hope it helps.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1858 posts since 15 May, 2017
Thanks Yelluhan!
Exactly what I was looking for. I want the ability to work in one place on the midi and just send that to the DAW.
I see that the answer is the midi port driver. (I have loopbe1) I never thought about needing anything more until now.. So, really, I could just get that worked out and I am good to go..
thanks so much!
Exactly what I was looking for. I want the ability to work in one place on the midi and just send that to the DAW.
I see that the answer is the midi port driver. (I have loopbe1) I never thought about needing anything more until now.. So, really, I could just get that worked out and I am good to go..
thanks so much!
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- KVRAF
- 1782 posts since 10 Mar, 2004
Great to hear that BluGenes!
just let us know if you need anything more.
just let us know if you need anything more.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1858 posts since 15 May, 2017
So, just to be clear.. I can set up like that and be able to pass the midi to the DAW and hear everything play. To get the midi to the DAW, I would then just drag and drop it either to a folder or directly into the DAW. (like in your example videos)
The reason I would need a solution like this is, it would be possible to run into a situation were the stand alone players were not allowed to run multiple instances of themselves. Example being Sample Tank 3. I have several libraries and/or several sets of different instruments saved.. (their 'multi') , so, that can not run more than one instance in stand alone and would need to run as a VST to use.
So, now, with RC I have the ability to work on huge projects in one place. sweet.
The reason I would need a solution like this is, it would be possible to run into a situation were the stand alone players were not allowed to run multiple instances of themselves. Example being Sample Tank 3. I have several libraries and/or several sets of different instruments saved.. (their 'multi') , so, that can not run more than one instance in stand alone and would need to run as a VST to use.
So, now, with RC I have the ability to work on huge projects in one place. sweet.
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- KVRAF
- 1782 posts since 10 Mar, 2004
-yes
&
-yes
only standalone RC and Reaper .. instruments are VSTi and you can load many of them as you need multiple Multis & Instruments ..
depends on CPU & RAM as you know.
&
-yes
only standalone RC and Reaper .. instruments are VSTi and you can load many of them as you need multiple Multis & Instruments ..
depends on CPU & RAM as you know.
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musicdevelopments musicdevelopments https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=223336 - KVRAF
- 5436 posts since 9 Jan, 2010
Thanks yellukhan for the helpful answer! 
Attila
Attila
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1858 posts since 15 May, 2017
One thing that was not mentioned,... in Reaper.. Options - > Preferences -> MIDI Devices and enable all the inputs created by LoopBe30. (or whatever driver you decide to use)
You won't be sending MIDI back, so, don't enable the outputs. (unless you intend to send MIDI to a real hardware device)
People not using Reaper may need to make similar adjustments in your particular DAW.
You won't be sending MIDI back, so, don't enable the outputs. (unless you intend to send MIDI to a real hardware device)
People not using Reaper may need to make similar adjustments in your particular DAW.
Last edited by BluGenes on Wed May 24, 2017 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 1782 posts since 10 Mar, 2004
@ Attila, always pleasure & also kind a practice to me to think English 
you are right forgot to mention that!
a few plus:
--you can disable Record Midi for this Receiver Tracks..
for example when you want to record something in Reaper and do not want to record Receiver Tracks
because we already have nicely working midi drag drop from RC...
right click to RecArm select =
Record: Disable (input monitoring only)
--also... if you have/prepare "RCINST" file for the synths that accepts program change message
for example Korg M1 you can change the instrument presets directly from RC via drag drop from RC Instruments Browser to the track that assigned to M1 in Reaper.
if you have M1, add one of the Reaper track and press to COMBI button define midi port/channel of the track and now you can change the Combi presets from RC
here is the COMBI RCINST file of the first 11 cards...
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 8&t=469732
didn't tried but i think this should work also Kontakt Banks that you can load 128 different patches in it.
that's all for now.
ah!BluGenes wrote:One thing that was not mentioned in Reaper.. Options - > Preferences -> MIDI Devices and enable all the inputs created by LoopBe30. (or whatever driver you decide to use)
You won't be sending MIDI back, so, don't enable the outputs. (unless you intend to send MIDI to a real hardware device)
you are right forgot to mention that!
a few plus:
--you can disable Record Midi for this Receiver Tracks..
for example when you want to record something in Reaper and do not want to record Receiver Tracks
because we already have nicely working midi drag drop from RC...
right click to RecArm select =
Record: Disable (input monitoring only)
--also... if you have/prepare "RCINST" file for the synths that accepts program change message
for example Korg M1 you can change the instrument presets directly from RC via drag drop from RC Instruments Browser to the track that assigned to M1 in Reaper.
if you have M1, add one of the Reaper track and press to COMBI button define midi port/channel of the track and now you can change the Combi presets from RC
here is the COMBI RCINST file of the first 11 cards...
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 8&t=469732
didn't tried but i think this should work also Kontakt Banks that you can load 128 different patches in it.
that's all for now.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1858 posts since 15 May, 2017
Also I need to add, and this may be isolated to me, as my ASIO is probably different than the normal user, but, if for whatever reason you start to get static, then the ASIO buffer has become corrupted. The fix is merely clicking your system tray and bringing the ASIO device into focus, this resets the buffers.
I use ASIO4ALL, but, I have another layer on top of that as well, ASIO Link. This allows me to mix back into ASIO my system audio. For example, I can run Reaper, then jump into Youtube or run a media player, etc., without having to close Reaper, or I can screen capture my work with ASIO audio.
For multi-timbrel VSTi's, you may need to reload your instruments, too. So, be sure and create instrument saves, etc..(aria player load/save, or Sample Tank Multi's)
Just a fair warning, and I say this with humor intended, this is a tedious setup. But, it does work. I have a 48 track template set up so far..
Also, the ROUTING Matrix is your friend!
EDIT: I removed the advice I gave about setting Reaper's offline mode. That only pertains to actual items on a track, so, disabling this is not needed..
I use ASIO4ALL, but, I have another layer on top of that as well, ASIO Link. This allows me to mix back into ASIO my system audio. For example, I can run Reaper, then jump into Youtube or run a media player, etc., without having to close Reaper, or I can screen capture my work with ASIO audio.
For multi-timbrel VSTi's, you may need to reload your instruments, too. So, be sure and create instrument saves, etc..(aria player load/save, or Sample Tank Multi's)
Just a fair warning, and I say this with humor intended, this is a tedious setup. But, it does work. I have a 48 track template set up so far..
Also, the ROUTING Matrix is your friend!
EDIT: I removed the advice I gave about setting Reaper's offline mode. That only pertains to actual items on a track, so, disabling this is not needed..
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- KVRist
- 38 posts since 17 Dec, 2013 from France
Hi,
Thanks for all those tips !
I am currently working on a large project (All tracks are Midi sent to my DAW and everything works perfectly).
I would like to know how you manage the big number of tracks ? With too much tracks, half my time is used to scroll, increase the size of the track, work on it, make it small, scroll, scroll, resize, scroll, trying to increase the size of the last track pixel by pixel, scroll, etc etc..
Is there a way to have a good workflow on RC whan hanging, lets say, 48 tracks ? Does tracks folder exist ? Can we hide a track temporary ? can we have key shortcuts to make a part/all parts small/medium/big ?
Thanks by advance,
Best regards,
Gotacki
Thanks for all those tips !
I am currently working on a large project (All tracks are Midi sent to my DAW and everything works perfectly).
I would like to know how you manage the big number of tracks ? With too much tracks, half my time is used to scroll, increase the size of the track, work on it, make it small, scroll, scroll, resize, scroll, trying to increase the size of the last track pixel by pixel, scroll, etc etc..
Is there a way to have a good workflow on RC whan hanging, lets say, 48 tracks ? Does tracks folder exist ? Can we hide a track temporary ? can we have key shortcuts to make a part/all parts small/medium/big ?
Thanks by advance,
Best regards,
Gotacki
Gotacki
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musicdevelopments musicdevelopments https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=223336
- KVRAF
- 5436 posts since 9 Jan, 2010
Hi,
RC was not optimized to work with many tracks.
You can define shortcuts for the following (in Settings / Keyboard Shortcuts):
Minimize All Tracks
Minimize All Tracks, Maximize Current Track
Maximize All Tracks To Fit
Maximize Selected Track
Thanks,
Attila
RC was not optimized to work with many tracks.
You can define shortcuts for the following (in Settings / Keyboard Shortcuts):
Minimize All Tracks
Minimize All Tracks, Maximize Current Track
Maximize All Tracks To Fit
Maximize Selected Track
Thanks,
Attila
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1858 posts since 15 May, 2017
The best thing I found working like this is to name the track the VST name, the Instrument Name and the Midi channel that it is intended for.
As an example, I have 2 instances of the Aria player and maybe another Sample Tank. Each instance set up with 16 different instruments, for 48 tracks in my DAW.
In RC, I would name the track I needed - Aria 1 Port 01 Cello Midi 11
or
Aria 2 Port 02 Strings PIZ Midi 14
If I drag those tracks out to a folder, I know exactly were it would go in my DAW because RC names the file like that.
As an example, I have 2 instances of the Aria player and maybe another Sample Tank. Each instance set up with 16 different instruments, for 48 tracks in my DAW.
In RC, I would name the track I needed - Aria 1 Port 01 Cello Midi 11
or
Aria 2 Port 02 Strings PIZ Midi 14
If I drag those tracks out to a folder, I know exactly were it would go in my DAW because RC names the file like that.
