synthedit synths ... free or not ?

[Funkybot]

I'm in the camp of I don't care how you made it if it sounds good and I want it badly enough I'd pay for it as long as the price was right. But until CPU useage drops to a more normal level I highly doubt I'd pay much more than $15 for a great SynthEdit made VSTi. But know that devs can import their own modules created in C+ (or whatever they use) I really think that we're going to see some even better SE VSTi's coming out soon, so why not pay for them?

[-SPYRO-]

If the product is good, Ill pay for it no matter how it was made.

I personally think people shouldn't sell Synthedit instruments just right now since SE is still in development and freeware so we should return the favor and give the instruments for free, if you want to ask for donations that's ok, a lot of work is involved when making a plugin.

IMHO

[BONES]

until CPU useage drops to a more normal level

Both my synths use around the same CPU as WaspXT or Scoprion [not in unison mode]. I didn't do anything in particular to get them like that, that's just how it turned out. Maybe some SE synth builders over-engineer their synths a little?

[x_bruce]

If anyone wants to get a license for SynthEdit contact Jeff, he'll give you a url to purchase it.

If there comes a time a synth made in SE is worth spending money on I have no problem purchasing it. But it will have to do things better than a synth I already have or more functional.

Those are my rules for synth purchases to begin with. Although I love some of the role player synths being made with SE there are a handfull I'd consider purchasing and only if the price was reasonable.

Lastly there are many freeware synths, Crystal, Synth 1 or Triangle to name a few. I think a few greedy (and a few legitimate) SE users have tried to charge for their synths.

When I release a SE VSTi it will be free no matter how many hours I put into it. It will be free because I appreciate how many can't spend money on tons of VSTis. Maybe it's my old hippie days but I like how people have been giving away their work. It establishes a community that many users can benefit from. I believe people deserve to make money off what they do but there are some times when I don't feel this way.

SE is for the most part a gift from a developer that never pushes people into buying his work. There is a part of me that hates the idea of people making money off his work without him seeling some money. I'm protective of people that are kind to the artist community.

People will do what they want and I'll decide whether I should reward them by compensating them. That's the best I can come up with. Again, I really like many of the oddball synths being made and the creativity to make those synths but if I had to pay for them I would do without.

[VitaminD]

alternatively... to register synthedit..

in synthedit click help>help topics>registration (4th from the bottom)

the link is listed there (to shareit)


my synthedit creations will (should) stay free.. unless/until i start coding my own modules for it.. and becomes more my own creation and less SE default modules...

i mean.. currently my stuff is made for ME to use.. i just happen to release it to the public after its completed.. i dont aim to please! (unless its my own ears im attempting to please)

however i dont see any problem in others charging for their SE creations... but i wont see any use in purchasing them unless..

(a) its something unique that i desire
and
(b) im unable to create it myself..

[whyterabbyt]

bluey quoth Difference is, good clay is not free either !!

It is to whoever digs it up and sells it on.

Synthedit is FREE.

Strictkly spoeaking that is incorrect. It is also irrelevant to the issue.

Drawing comparisons with sync modular and reaktor is not comparable.

That sentence doesnt make any sense whatsoever.

There are obvious compartisons, though, with both Sync and Reaktor, since both are modular environments.

In the open source code world, it is generally not seen as ethical to recompile the code and pass it off as your own work.

Obviously you don't understand what 'open source' actually means. There is nothing which restricts the sale of open source software. The only provision is that the terms of most licenses insist that if you redistribute the software you must include the source code.
If it was considered 'unethical' then companies like IBM, Sun, Redhat, Suse, Scriptics, Activestate and a whole host of others would be preceived entirely differently from the way they actually are.

Your arguments are spurious, and misinformed.

[e-modic]

Obviously you don't understand what 'open source' actually means. There is nothing which restricts the sale of open source software. The only provision is that the terms of most licenses insist that if you redistribute the software you must include the source code.
If it was considered 'unethical' then companies like IBM, Sun, Redhat, Suse, Scriptics, Activestate and a whole host of others would be preceived entirely differently from the way they actually are.

Your arguments are spurious, and misinformed.

good explaination whyterabbit !

Anyway, I wonder that it is a question to pay for synth edit VSTi`s ???
And as whyterrabbi explained: it is not the a question of open source, it is a question of quality. And I still wonder that "land of cockaigne" VST´s are for free ! They have a better quality (CPU; performance) as many VST synths (which I will not name) which you have to pay for.

bryllyant

I will pay !

[kritikon]

It's a bit of a catch 22 really - Although it's shareware, I bet lots of Synthedit programmers have d'led it without any payment (which is what attracted them in the firstplace), and I'm sure there are some payable SE creations/creators that haven't paid Jeff for SE. Maybe he's not so interested in payment, but if it wasn't free, or shareware, then probably not too many people would download SE in the first place.

Personally I don't mind paying for SE synths, but I'd be happier about it if I knew that Jeff was getting some payment for SE, or some royalties from the synths or whatever. If he reckons it's OK for other people to make cash from his program, then that's fine, but I wouldn't bet on it.

The difference with Reaktor etc is that you have to buy the original before you can make up your own ensembles, so initial payment is taken for granted.

[pHz]

[kritikon] Personally I don't mind paying for SE synths, but I'd be happier about it if I knew that Jeff was getting some payment for SE

... rest assured that IF i charge for any of my stuff ... i am a fully paid-up registered user of synthedit ...

... as a fairly active member of the synthedit community i would guess [in an educated fashion] that the majority of people developing synthedit vst stuff for release [whether freeware or commercial] ARE registered [and therefore fully paid up] users ... the registered version does allow certain advantages re - compiled vst plugins cf. the free version in terms of control of presets and overt references to synthedit etc. [ie ... it SHOULD be fairly easy to distinguish between stuff built using a registered version or an unregistered one] ...

... cheers rob

ps ... whats the view on voluntary contributions ... worthwhile or not

[mistertoast]

I don't mind compensating someone for their time. But, obviously, I have to believe that it took some time. A slick interface helps. A rack of great presets helps. But I want to think there was some work going on inside the synth as well.

The only SynthEdit creation I would sell would be one with at least one custom DLL inside it.

I'd pay for Phibes. Drumatic. Maybe a couple others. I'm glad they're free, though. If a free synth does what I need, I'm not going to pay for one that does the same thing or sounds pretty much the same.

I imagine these Synthedit creations are going to cause some stomach aches among VSTi developers. I spend so much time exploring them that I'm slowed down on downloading demos of commercial VSTis.

[CapnLockheed]

"I imagine these Synthedit creations are going to cause some stomach aches among VSTi developers. I spend so much time exploring them that I'm slowed down on downloading demos of commercial VSTis."

Ooh I hear that, I've been spending quite a bit of time playing
with them myself. I think it's a good thing to cause the commercial
developers a bit of anxiety, perhaps all these free SE VSTi's will
cause the bar to be raised in the quality of VSTi's in general. Overall
I agree with most users.....if it's good enough, it's worth buying.
With all the fantastic free synths available though, it's got to
be really good before I'll buy it.

Cheers.....CL

[Rabid]

I would not pay for a Synthedit creation, but I might pay for the time someone put into it. Just like Dashsynths. I would not pay for a Reaktor instrument because I bought Reaktor, and I could do it myself. However, I would pay for the custom graphics, samples, and presets they spent time on. So yes, I would buy if the price is right, but it better beat out what I already have, what I have time to do myself, what is free, and what a developer might produce. So far the better VSTi's out there have a better sound and more efficient CPU usage. I don't think SynthEdit is yet at that stage, but it maybe some day.

Robert

[mr kipling]

If someone made an amazing Synthedit vsti which they charged for then id be a fool not to buy it...but it does seem to me like Synthedit is the Dance Ejay of the vsti world...i.e. its easy to get pretty good results with but (if youre only using the supplied modules) is kind of an insult to developers who spend months programming their own stuff. But who knows, some of my favourite music could have been made with Dance Ejay for all I know so like I said b4, I would pay for something that was worth it.

[x_bruce]

I'm going to add another thing, the minute I started using several SynthEdit authored synths I purchased the license. Actually, my band did, we agreed that since there was a nominal fee for a SE license we should reward it's creator. Just to be clear on that front...

I think Robert has a lot of good points in his post, most shareware and almost all commercial plugins are more refined sounding. This is not always a problem as many of us like unrefined sounds but you can still tell when something has been authored in SE. This is not an issue either as you can frequently tell when something was created using Reaktor.

Every synth engine, including those for modular designing, have their own sound inherent in how the editing programmer designs the modules. Jeff did an excellent job of putting it all together but remember, this isn't a 1.0 version yet and even if it were finished and declared 1.0 today we'd still need to take into account that many updates will be made and enhancement from coders that make new modules. At some point the actual engine will become sophisticated and with it's own flavor as every other program like it.

Here are some other issues that concern me. It's great to build a high quality VSTi and several SE based synths are high quality. However, when I buy a synth from someone I look to see how long they've been in business, if they have a good reputation for customer service and whether they are in it for the long haul. And I hope SE based VSTi developers are reading this because the idea of paying for your labor isn't at issue for me or for the corporation that is my band, the issue is whether you are in it for the long haul and if you charge anything for your labor, I don't care whether it's $1.00, at that point you are doing business and as such should be expected to work just like rgcAudio or reFex, or LinPlug, Big Tick or any of the other shareware developers.

Rene of rgcAudio goes to painstaking length to answer questions on his freeware, so does Peter of LinPlug, the folks at Big Tick, etc. My suggestion to any SE developers is to be ready to charge for your time too because the most expensive part of being commercial is customer service and dealing with things like screwed up orders, dumb consumers and people that bought something you love and end up not liking it even though you most probably had plenty mp3 files with sounds from your new creation or a demo. But you can't do that right now with SynthEdit so right off the bat you are at a disadvatage unless you give away some synths and get yourselves a name. I'd consider purchases from:
Land of Cockaigne
expeRIMentFOUR
Elogoxa (although I could do without the naked woman on the interface of Cosmo Girl II)
there are some I'm sure I've missed but my point is they have somewhat of a track record and I like elements of what they do. My curiosity is piqued. If they charge for something I'll still expect it to be at the quality level of LinPlug's Alpha. If it's going to be a specialty synth it better do that specialty very well, and I'm not talking about some of the wacky noise stuff that is fun to play with and use occasionally and isn't something you couldn't find by about ten developers as freeware already. I'm thinking about a formant synth. There's already big competition with MHC's Fatsondo, Voxynth and Spacesynth or Big Tick's Angelina which is better at voice synthesis than anything I've heard of any synth including Reaktor. Whatever you put out has to compete with Smart Electron:x's GalactiX.

My advice to those who want to make money, study what's available as freeware and as shareware. There is big competition for the most part from known developers. If you decide to test the shareware market be prepared to go head to head with those already ahead of you and those behind you willing to give away work that might be very much like yours. That is something else you have to worry about.

People that can take advantage of the SDK in SynthEdit probably have a better chance of making unique synths or selling the components to people that have the ability to use their components well. In the Reaktor world Dash can sell it's work because bluntly their emulations frequently are better sounding than synths they were based on, also, they bring out some of the more creative ideas within Reaktor, oh, their authors also offer free synths.

So if and when I purchase something that designer will have to prove they are in this for the long haul and not give up when things get tough. You want money, you run the risks of people having higher expectations from you. I get something free and I don't like it, I move on. I buy something that is supposed to be a powerful synthesizer but has one thing it does good, I'm going to complain and I'm pretty easy on developers.

What it comes down to is not only whether it's ok to sell. If Jeff has no problem with it then it's none of our business what designers do. But the minute they decide they want money they, at least for me, have to accept responsibilities for bugs, customer service - the whole works. For me the developer that puts something up for sale is expected to have quality and be able to prove it with freeware or track history especially since you can not make a demo VST as far as I know in SynthEdit.

I would encourage everyone to take a similar stance as I would encourage people who feel SE synths should not be paid for to reconsider their viewpoint. If someone feels their work is worth payment they have a right to charge, but we as consumers have a right to quality service, distribution of the VSTi and accountability.

[Rabid]

.....But the minute they decide they want money they, at least for me, have to accept responsibilities for bugs, customer service - the whole works. ....

OK. This brings up a big question. People makes VSTi's using SynthEdit and then sell them. Who is responsible when a bug is revealed, or an incompatability evolves with an operating system update? If I buy from a developer here I know they will handle any problems that arise. If I own Reaktor or Tassman (and I own them both) then I know that modules I have will survive updates. If I don't have a license for Synth Edit, and I have not clue of how to use it, who is responsible for bugs? Can I depend on a new person who just started out to send me an updated version of the synth I bought from them for $20? If it is free, I don't worry. If I pay for it, like x_bruce pointed out, I want to know someone will take care of me.

Robert