Bitwig

Kung VU · Post by **Kung VU** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 8:38 am

https://www.ableton.com/en/push/

But for this we need a decent sampler in Bitwig first

Quite some people seem to agree that it is time for a more powerful sampler:

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 9&t=449670

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... r#p6203279

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... r#p6223911

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... r#p6234151

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... r#p6256672

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... r#p6278018

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... r#p6280065

svervs · Post by **svervs** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 9:33 am

I really wish they would just commision those guys, doing the Push scripting at the moment, and not rely on the "community", when it's actually just 2 or 3 guys doing the work for free ...

thetechnobear · Post by **thetechnobear** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:16 am

Unfortunately, there is one possible issue ....

The Push 2 midi messages may not be the same as the Push 1 ( and remember the 'push 1 midi api' was never official)

In particular I interested to see how your going to address the LCD, the original character based sysex approach is surely not going to work.

I really hope ableton have created a compatible mode, otherwise all the existing push enabled apps and add ons won't work

TeotiGraphix · Post by **TeotiGraphix** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:24 am

To me it seems Ableton is now following NI Maschine Studio with it's display.

If this is the case, say good bye to normalized interaction because the Maschine Stduio was a freaking nightmare.

I still haven't finished the script because NI doesn't care about 3rd party scripts accessing anything more then the pads/knobs...

Think about it though, your really think you can send sample data through MIDI messages? Nan, Ableton is using USB transport with some binary data back and forth.

Mike

thetechnobear · Post by **thetechnobear** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:34 am

I agree mike, I can't see you getting a color bit matrix over midi...

I guess for the controller scripts (in live) they will have some kind of Api, but that won't be available outside Live.
( I looked at the ableton vids and you can for example see some pretty low pass filter graphic)

so perhaps the push2 won't be as useful for other apps

Perhaps this evening I'll decompile the live 9.5 controller scripts, that should start to answer some of the questions.

Kung VU · Post by **Kung VU** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:58 am

Maybe this could lead to the beginning of Bitwig's own dedicated hardware? Although the Nektar Panorama6 is freaking amazing already!

thetechnobear · Post by **thetechnobear** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 11:37 am

Installed 9.5 ... no firmware upgrade for Push1 (so good news there)
There is now a new folder in the app called Push2 with an 'executable' called Push2DisplayProcess...

controller scripts, not decompiled yet (wont have time till later) , but there is now a Push, Push2 and a 'pushbase' folder, so I guess we can assume a common base with all display/interaction abstracted. once I decompile Id assume we will find the Push2 communicating with the Push2DisplayProcess ... possibly via a new pyc called 'real_time_channel.pyc' (total guess

)

back to Push2DisplayProcess, this is really interesting....
its an app (Im using MacOSX) that communicates via USB (libusb) that using Qt/QML (see https://github.com/Ableton/aqt-stylesheets)
there is an amazing amount of stuff in there... some which seems 'generic' some which appears to be ableton live specific.

so perhaps there is hope for other applications....

(my main issue is, I suspect it will only work on Mac/Windows... so Linux or other platforms may not be able to drive the Push display properly)

TeotiGraphix · Post by **TeotiGraphix** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 11:38 am

I gotta say, I just looked through the new Push videos, Ableton kicked ass on their implementation of the whole UI of the LCD screen.

Example, when in browser, the columns actually expand to see the whole sample name and the screen scrolls horizontally.

It blows my Maschine Studio away.

Mike

TeotiGraphix · Post by **TeotiGraphix** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 11:44 am

thetechnobear wrote:Installed 9.5 ... no firmware upgrade for Push1 (so good news there)
There is now a new folder in the app called Push2 with an 'executable' called Push2DisplayProcess...

controller scripts, not decompiled yet (wont have time till later) , but there is now a Push, Push2 and a 'pushbase' folder, so I guess we can assume a common base with all display/interaction abstracted. once I decompile Id assume we will find the Push2 communicating with the Push2DisplayProcess ... possibly via a new pyc called 'real_time_channel.pyc' (total guess )

back to Push2DisplayProcess, this is really interesting....
its an app (Im using MacOSX) that communicates via USB (libusb) that using Qt/QML (see https://github.com/Ableton/aqt-stylesheets)
there is an amazing amount of stuff in there... some which seems 'generic' some which appears to be ableton live specific.

so perhaps there is hope for other applications....

(my main issue is, I suspect it will only work on Mac/Windows... so Linux or other platforms may not be able to drive the Push display properly)

Interesting, I wonder if they are using QT on the Push2?

They must be using a very mature UI framework that is installed on the Push2 from what I have seen so far and it would make total sense from them to have an abstracted API that could talk to that UI layer.

They have that new "Link" that I am wondering if it will allow other apps to digest the same info as the Push2 is.

I am installing 9.5 update as well.

Mike

thetechnobear · Post by **thetechnobear** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 11:58 am

Im with you...its looking like Ableton have done a really good job on Push 2 (and 9.5)
I just hope they realise that many use the Push with other apps (not only daws e.g. Numerology 4 supports it natively), its gone beyond 'user mode'

ooh... news ...
In the QML Ive found an 'emulator'... I wonder if this is push 1 emulation... perhaps rather than in firmware, they implement it in the Display process.

TeotiGraphix · Post by **TeotiGraphix** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:14 pm

BTW,

I am willing to bet that Ableton will not screw themselves with all the other apps that use Push1's MIDI sysex.

I'm guessing they have a mode where the Push's display will take the same data in 8 columns by 4 rows that the old Push does and the same sysex.

Maschine Studio does this, but it's "MIDI mode", so maybe Push2 has a MIDI mode as well that is backwards compatible.

It would be nice if you could access their Display API though.

Mike

thetechnobear · Post by **thetechnobear** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 1:01 pm

TeotiGraphix wrote:BTW,

I am willing to bet that Ableton will not screw themselves with all the other apps that use Push1's MIDI sysex.

I'm guessing they have a mode where the Push's display will take the same data in 8 columns by 4 rows that the old Push does and the same sysex.

I really hope so... but I was thinking, there aren't that many apps (ok, I know Push4Bitwig) that explicitly support the Push, so its down to if they think it was 'worth it'. I personally think it is, as whilst you wont get the graphics etc it is a very simple protocol, easy to integrate into apps etc.

if they confirm its compatible, I will be trading my Push 1 instantly

TeotiGraphix · Post by **TeotiGraphix** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 1:08 pm

thetechnobear wrote:
TeotiGraphix wrote:BTW,

I am willing to bet that Ableton will not screw themselves with all the other apps that use Push1's MIDI sysex.

I'm guessing they have a mode where the Push's display will take the same data in 8 columns by 4 rows that the old Push does and the same sysex.
I really hope so... but I was thinking, there aren't that many apps (ok, I know Push4Bitwig) that explicitly support the Push, so its down to if they think it was 'worth it'. I personally think it is, as whilst you wont get the graphics etc it is a very simple protocol, easy to integrate into apps etc.

if they confirm its compatible, I will be trading my Push 1 instantly

Yes well, It's not that easy with Push4Bitwig atm, the layout is different on Push2. I haven't looked specifically but there might be missing buttons and such.

Let me know what you find when you decompile the scripts.

Mike

thetechnobear · Post by **thetechnobear** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 1:37 pm

yeah, button layout is very different, but mainly the same buttons...

the differences I can see are:
setup -new
convert - new
layout - new
device in/out - i think are replaced with page +/- on cursor format, along with octave +/-
volume - replaced with mix ? (pan/send I guess consumed in this)
pad/send - gone
track - gone

I have to say, looking carefully at the new layout, seems to make a lot of sense, and the increase in size of many buttons looks interesting... though not quite worked out how they have done this, it looks the same size, yet seems to have bigger buttons and more space... will have to investigate more

xbitz · Post by **xbitz** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 1:47 pm

there are some side by side photo here http://createdigitalmusic.com/2015/11/a ... s-on-test/

Bitwig

KVR Audio

Can't wait to see the new Push being integrated into Bitwig