After installing the 2.1.2 update, I am getting cpu spikes and plug-in crashes in what I am pretty sure were previously stable projects. Unfortunately, this has made Bitwig completely unusable - I had been trying to learn Bitwig as an alternative to Logic.
It is difficult to find the origin of the problem - I rebuild the project from scratch and eventually the cpu spikes appear, but I can't pinpoint a single plug-in. Just now, I am getting them when I add a track that contains FM4 with an arpeggiator. But I have seen the behavior with other combinations, and once things start glitching, various plug-ins can crash (I've seen plug-in crashes with Alchemy, Factory, Minitaur Editor, and various effects including ones from Cytomic and Steven Slate). The cpu spikes can be seen in the dsp graph as the bar flashing to 100%, and can be heard as glitches in the audio.
I changed the audio buffer size from Auto to 1024, which did seem to help in one project, but then the spikes came back with the next one I opened, and a third one I tried crashed the audio engine.
Anyone else experiencing anything like this? All the plug-ins I have been using are completely stable in Logic.
Bitwig 2.1.2
OS-X 10.11.5
Hackintosh (iMac 13,2)
Ivy Bridge, Intel i7 3.4Ghz, 32 GB RAM
RME Fireface UCX (firewire 400)
malgre
Latest News: Bitwig updates Bitwig Studio to v5.1
2.1.2 cpu spikes, crashes
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- KVRist
- 37 posts since 13 Oct, 2011 from Basel
Hi malgre
I am having CPU spike problems since a few weeks now (already had them with 2.1.1) as well.
System:
MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015), 2.8 GHz Intel Core i7, 16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3, macOS 10.12.5 (16F73), Bitwig Studio 2.1.2.
I don't see any plugins crashing, but have spike issues in several projects which used to run fine before. Unfortunately, I installed some plugin updates in the meantime too, which makes debugging the whole thing even harder.
After deconstructing many of the problematic projects for hours and hours I thought I had nailed it and that some iZotope Ozone 7 plugins would cause the spikes. However, while this was reproducible in some projects, it wasn't in others. Then I suspected Softube's Tonelux Tilt plugin as the cause, because in some projects, removing all instances of the plugin made them rock solid again (meaning, I did not had ANY spikes at all after that). But then again, other projects produce no spikes and have a ton of Tonelux Tilts on various channels.
So, at the moment I am pretty clueless (and tired as well).
I am also in contact with Bitwig support over the issue and hope to have it resolved soon.
Best luck to you as well!
Amadeus
I am having CPU spike problems since a few weeks now (already had them with 2.1.1) as well.
System:
MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015), 2.8 GHz Intel Core i7, 16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3, macOS 10.12.5 (16F73), Bitwig Studio 2.1.2.
I don't see any plugins crashing, but have spike issues in several projects which used to run fine before. Unfortunately, I installed some plugin updates in the meantime too, which makes debugging the whole thing even harder.
After deconstructing many of the problematic projects for hours and hours I thought I had nailed it and that some iZotope Ozone 7 plugins would cause the spikes. However, while this was reproducible in some projects, it wasn't in others. Then I suspected Softube's Tonelux Tilt plugin as the cause, because in some projects, removing all instances of the plugin made them rock solid again (meaning, I did not had ANY spikes at all after that). But then again, other projects produce no spikes and have a ton of Tonelux Tilts on various channels.
So, at the moment I am pretty clueless (and tired as well).
I am also in contact with Bitwig support over the issue and hope to have it resolved soon.
Best luck to you as well!
Amadeus
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 12 posts since 28 Jun, 2017 from SF, CA. USA
Amadeus,
Sounds very familiar - I've chased one plug-in after another around and sometimes I would swear that a specific one was the culprit only to have the problem not be repeatable in another project, or to have the problem crop up without the suspect plug-in. Very frustrating. And, yeah, I can't be absolutely sure that the problems weren't there before the 2.1.2 update as I have just started to explore creating projects in Bitwig.
I, too, sent a message to Bitwig support, so I'm hoping this is something they can track down. I've got to stick with a DAW that works until then.
Best,
malgre
Sounds very familiar - I've chased one plug-in after another around and sometimes I would swear that a specific one was the culprit only to have the problem not be repeatable in another project, or to have the problem crop up without the suspect plug-in. Very frustrating. And, yeah, I can't be absolutely sure that the problems weren't there before the 2.1.2 update as I have just started to explore creating projects in Bitwig.
I, too, sent a message to Bitwig support, so I'm hoping this is something they can track down. I've got to stick with a DAW that works until then.
Best,
malgre
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- KVRist
- 37 posts since 13 Oct, 2011 from Basel
Hey malgre
I have some new observations to share with you.
I think I nailed the cause of my issues. They seem to only occur with the VST 3 versions of some plugins.
In the past I used to mix VST 2 and VST 3 plugin versions by chance (whichever showed up first in Bitwig Studio's browser, basically) but recently configured the browser to only show the VST 2 versions of the plugins. I did so mainly because the VST 3 versions of the Plugin Alliance plugins are really unusable, as the potentiometers on some of them jump around wildly in the VST 3 versions.
So anyways, the reason why I could not consistently reproduce the spikes when trying to catch the issues in other (mostly newer) tracks, was because of the browser setting (I only added VST 2 versions to those projects in consequence). And as I now know the issues (for me) only occur with the VST 3 versions of the plugins.
Can you verify that this applies to your setup as well?
I already reported this to iZotope, Softube and of course Bitwig.
Many thanks!
Best
Amadeus
I have some new observations to share with you.
I think I nailed the cause of my issues. They seem to only occur with the VST 3 versions of some plugins.
In the past I used to mix VST 2 and VST 3 plugin versions by chance (whichever showed up first in Bitwig Studio's browser, basically) but recently configured the browser to only show the VST 2 versions of the plugins. I did so mainly because the VST 3 versions of the Plugin Alliance plugins are really unusable, as the potentiometers on some of them jump around wildly in the VST 3 versions.
So anyways, the reason why I could not consistently reproduce the spikes when trying to catch the issues in other (mostly newer) tracks, was because of the browser setting (I only added VST 2 versions to those projects in consequence). And as I now know the issues (for me) only occur with the VST 3 versions of the plugins.
Can you verify that this applies to your setup as well?
I already reported this to iZotope, Softube and of course Bitwig.
Many thanks!
Best
Amadeus
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 12 posts since 28 Jun, 2017 from SF, CA. USA
Amadeus,
OK, I have done another round of troubleshooting with your findings in mind, and I have isolated what appears to be the main culprit for me - the VST3 version of the Steven Slate Tape Machine plug-in. (The VST2 version appears to work fine)
I did a clean install of Bitwig (deleting all the application folders) and started building a new project, and everything was working great, even when I loaded a bunch of other VST3 plug-ins. But as soon as I loaded a preset of mine with that plug-in in the FX chain of an instrument, I saw the spike behavior. So that is a good find.
I did load some Plugin Alliance VST3s - bx_cleansweep, bx_saturator V2, SPL TwinTube, bx_boom, MAAG EQ4 - and I did not notice any problems with them.
Unfortunately I am still seeing some VST2 plug-in crashes, but mainly with two plug-ins - Alchemy (which will often crash on project load, but I can usually restart it) and also Moog Minitaur Editor.
Strangely, it seems like there is less DSP usage since doing a clean install. I don't have any hard evidence for this, yet, but I'm going to try to rebuild Bitwig as I had it before and see if I can find a measurable difference.
Thanks for the clues! I think I can get Bitwig to mostly behave - still not as stable as I would like, but I can work around the problems for now.
malgre
OK, I have done another round of troubleshooting with your findings in mind, and I have isolated what appears to be the main culprit for me - the VST3 version of the Steven Slate Tape Machine plug-in. (The VST2 version appears to work fine)
I did a clean install of Bitwig (deleting all the application folders) and started building a new project, and everything was working great, even when I loaded a bunch of other VST3 plug-ins. But as soon as I loaded a preset of mine with that plug-in in the FX chain of an instrument, I saw the spike behavior. So that is a good find.
I did load some Plugin Alliance VST3s - bx_cleansweep, bx_saturator V2, SPL TwinTube, bx_boom, MAAG EQ4 - and I did not notice any problems with them.
Unfortunately I am still seeing some VST2 plug-in crashes, but mainly with two plug-ins - Alchemy (which will often crash on project load, but I can usually restart it) and also Moog Minitaur Editor.
Strangely, it seems like there is less DSP usage since doing a clean install. I don't have any hard evidence for this, yet, but I'm going to try to rebuild Bitwig as I had it before and see if I can find a measurable difference.
Thanks for the clues! I think I can get Bitwig to mostly behave - still not as stable as I would like, but I can work around the problems for now.
malgre
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- Banned
- 5357 posts since 7 May, 2015
Some vst 3 versions just just don't work in bitwig. I have 2 or 3 PA plugs that have issues in one way or another.
Generally, I just load the vst2 versions and seem to have terrific luck.
Generally, I just load the vst2 versions and seem to have terrific luck.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 12 posts since 28 Jun, 2017 from SF, CA. USA
Sounds like a good strategy. I have to remind myself that a few years ago I was chasing similar problems with Logic - it sure can get disheartening when you're wasting the better part of days on this instead of actually being productive.Generally, I just load the vst2 versions and seem to have terrific luck.
malgre
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- KVRian
- 911 posts since 10 Dec, 2013
Interesting reading guys - I've been having engine spikes & crashes for the last couple of months (especially when loading projects), but hadn't managed to track specific problem plugins either.
The plugin alliance plugins definitely don't behave well in Bitwig at the moment, I've had a few issues related to them:
- UVI Relayer crashes when at least one instance of a PA plugin is active in the same project
- Can only load one instance of some PA plugins when running in sandbox mode
However, other VSTs have started to cause some issues recently. Fabfilter GUIs are taking AGES to load in some projects, 10+ seconds at times, despite me never having had issues with them in the past. Likewise with Oeksound Soothe. I was in discussion with Bitwig support regarding this issue then it just stopped happening for a while bizarrely, so it's extremely hard to track down/provide useful bug reporting information.
I don't believe its the VST3 issue for me as a.) I don't use VST3 plugins at the moment and b.) my vst 32 path doesn't include the 'VST3' string so shouldn't have caused the issue which was fixed in this release.
There's one other hint which I recently submitted to Bitwig support - while discussing the Relayer bug with UVI they said that Bitwig appears to be returning a tempo value of 0 after instantiating certain Plugin Alliance plugins (Unfiltered Audio Fault for example). I wonder whether this is related to some of the spikes/crashes etc.?
Will update this thread if I discover anything new!
EDIT: On the plus side, the recent VST issues have encouraged me to bounce to audio a lot more and I feel that my production (especially arrangement/song pacing etc.) has improved a lot as a result
!
The plugin alliance plugins definitely don't behave well in Bitwig at the moment, I've had a few issues related to them:
- UVI Relayer crashes when at least one instance of a PA plugin is active in the same project
- Can only load one instance of some PA plugins when running in sandbox mode
However, other VSTs have started to cause some issues recently. Fabfilter GUIs are taking AGES to load in some projects, 10+ seconds at times, despite me never having had issues with them in the past. Likewise with Oeksound Soothe. I was in discussion with Bitwig support regarding this issue then it just stopped happening for a while bizarrely, so it's extremely hard to track down/provide useful bug reporting information.
I don't believe its the VST3 issue for me as a.) I don't use VST3 plugins at the moment and b.) my vst 32 path doesn't include the 'VST3' string so shouldn't have caused the issue which was fixed in this release.
There's one other hint which I recently submitted to Bitwig support - while discussing the Relayer bug with UVI they said that Bitwig appears to be returning a tempo value of 0 after instantiating certain Plugin Alliance plugins (Unfiltered Audio Fault for example). I wonder whether this is related to some of the spikes/crashes etc.?
Will update this thread if I discover anything new!
EDIT: On the plus side, the recent VST issues have encouraged me to bounce to audio a lot more and I feel that my production (especially arrangement/song pacing etc.) has improved a lot as a result
!-
- Banned
- 5357 posts since 7 May, 2015
It's very strange.
Here, I can load quite a bit more than I can in cubase for example. Oddly, the first go-around in bitwig (same exact computer) was atrocious in CPU use.
But I've almost never experienced the kinds of dropouts you guys are reporting, even with studio one (which is the worst to date with NI products)
I have a good wifi connection that doesn't interfere. I use "high performance" in windows settings, and I run 44,1 and a buffer of 128.
Now, I DO have a babyface pro, which might be helping my cause more. It's terribly expensive, but it's just so stellar.
Here, I can load quite a bit more than I can in cubase for example. Oddly, the first go-around in bitwig (same exact computer) was atrocious in CPU use.
But I've almost never experienced the kinds of dropouts you guys are reporting, even with studio one (which is the worst to date with NI products)
I have a good wifi connection that doesn't interfere. I use "high performance" in windows settings, and I run 44,1 and a buffer of 128.
Now, I DO have a babyface pro, which might be helping my cause more. It's terribly expensive, but it's just so stellar.
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- KVRist
- 43 posts since 14 Oct, 2015
@incubus I've been using an RME soundcard (Fireface w/USB) as well but having similar issues to the ones mentioned above. My machine frequently gets into a crackling, buffer-underrun kind of state, and the CPU seems to be loaded more than normal. Which TBH can sound pretty cool if you like glitchy stuff, but only if I had control over it 
I've been trying various suggestions for tuning my laptop for audio if anybody else is interested:
https://support.native-instruments.com/ ... Processing
http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/en_U ... ok_Drivers
https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/artic ... o-dropouts
A lot of these are general enough that they'd apply to Bitwig as well.
My best theories at the moment is that for me, this is something to do with USB or graphics. I've found that when I'm working at home with just the laptop, it seems a LOT more stable, whereas when I'm working in the studio with an extra monitor, an external USB soundcard, and a USB hub, it seems to go insane.
I'm working on trying to narrow it down, I wish everybody else luck in their quest for stability. This kind of performance issue is nonspecific enough that it's entirely possible that the root cause is slightly different for everybody.
Edit: I know there have been troubles with the Mac USB audio drivers as well recently, although it should be fixed now in 10.12.5: https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1917?locale=en_US
I've been trying various suggestions for tuning my laptop for audio if anybody else is interested:
https://support.native-instruments.com/ ... Processing
http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/en_U ... ok_Drivers
https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/artic ... o-dropouts
A lot of these are general enough that they'd apply to Bitwig as well.
My best theories at the moment is that for me, this is something to do with USB or graphics. I've found that when I'm working at home with just the laptop, it seems a LOT more stable, whereas when I'm working in the studio with an extra monitor, an external USB soundcard, and a USB hub, it seems to go insane.
I'm working on trying to narrow it down, I wish everybody else luck in their quest for stability. This kind of performance issue is nonspecific enough that it's entirely possible that the root cause is slightly different for everybody.
Edit: I know there have been troubles with the Mac USB audio drivers as well recently, although it should be fixed now in 10.12.5: https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1917?locale=en_US
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- Banned
- 5357 posts since 7 May, 2015
Dude, seriously, I empathize. It pisses me off that you can't experience the same quality I can, and I understand.
Nothing is created equal in this realm
I certainly hope you can find a way.
Nothing is created equal in this realm
I certainly hope you can find a way.-
- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 12 posts since 28 Jun, 2017 from SF, CA. USA
I'm using an RME audio interface, too, Fireface UCX, which I run thru firewire.
And stability and quality is not a problem, as long as I am using Logic
@pschuegr - Is the audio interface plugged into the USB hub? Out of the things you mentioned, USB would seem to be the most likely culprit (EDIT - and I agree that there may be multiple things at work, and slightly different combinations of factors for everybody).
malgre
And stability and quality is not a problem, as long as I am using Logic
@pschuegr - Is the audio interface plugged into the USB hub? Out of the things you mentioned, USB would seem to be the most likely culprit (EDIT - and I agree that there may be multiple things at work, and slightly different combinations of factors for everybody).
malgre
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- KVRist
- 43 posts since 14 Oct, 2015
@malgre it was, but I've pulled it out and the same issue happens. Even happens with onboard sound, unfortunately 
Not too many theories at the moment, but hopefully BW support will have some ideas.
Not too many theories at the moment, but hopefully BW support will have some ideas.
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- Banned
- 5357 posts since 7 May, 2015
Uggggg, I had a crash with vst2 of a plug (padshop???????) it's from cubase. Might be because I switched it with something. VST3 works fine 
I don't know, I send the report tomorrow.
I don't know, I send the report tomorrow.
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Distorted Horizon Distorted Horizon https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=392076 - Banned
- 3882 posts since 17 Jan, 2017 from Planet of cats
Seems like BWS is messing their subs plan already.. "We can bring new features immediately instead of waiting a major release". Been almost a year, no new features (except amp device) and everything they've released have come with pile of issues and bugs. Maybe that "major release" thing would've been better to them.
