Best DAW for linnstrument?

[Tj Shredder]

BTW TJ, do you use MainStage live or playing with others? If so, how is it?

Mainstage is great and better suited for live playing than Logic. I am still evaluating also Bitwig, I recently found out, without understanding all, that Bitwig has a decent VST 3 implementation, I had Halion 6 running, and had my pitch bend per note... I still have to figure out how to do it, I am too new to Halion...
Halion in Mainstage or Logic does not do it like in Bitwig...
I probably will run both, Mainstage and Bitwig. I connected the unused s/pdif in and out on my interface, and route Mainstage into Bitwig digitally. That should also work with Ableton...

[jsterne]

Thanks TJ. I feel like it's all just not very charted territory and I know too much in a way--I want something that "just works" but I also want to be able to do all these things that I've learned to do in software over the years.

I had that first band practice last night. The good news: the Linnstrument is a hit. The two other members were very excited at adding some sonic variety with synthesis and piano sounds. At first I played it too much like a bass player, but about an hour in some good ideas started to happen. I definitely will need to practice more--I'm still not really a 2-hand player. Nevertheless, the drummer called it "super inspiring" and they both marvelled at the visual and tactile quality of the Linnstrument. I'm not giving up bass anytime soon but it will add a whole other palette of sounds and ideas. And even though I've been playing synth for most of the 21st century and have occasionally done solo laptop or sampler performances, since I only had a semester of piano long ago, this is the first time I've actually really jammed with people as a synthesist. The isomorphic (aka, bass-like) layout works perfectly for me. It was a revelation.

Of course, not without a few hiccups.

I was using Live, so I don't know if this is an Ableton thing or a Linnstrument thing but here are two issues I ran into.

Occasionally, I got stuck notes (always C2, always in red on the Linnstrument). They stopped if I pressed the note again. I also notice if I did a slide in one split and switch for a stab in the other, the note pressed on the slide would still light up even though it wasn't sounding (so the sound was right, but the visual had a bit of lag). That was not an issue, more of a quirk.

Also, switching between splits, I found I couldn't figure out which split was being controlled by the pedals (I'd set them to sustain and arpeggiator lock) and which wasn't, and what logic governed that.

Otherwise, I've just got a lot to learn. Next week, I will try out Bitwig and/or try MainStage as a rewire host with Live in the background.

[John the Savage]

I was using Live, so I don't know if this is an Ableton thing or a Linnstrument thing but here are two issues I ran into.

Occasionally, I got stuck notes (always C2, always in red on the Linnstrument). They stopped if I pressed the note again. I also notice if I did a slide in one split and switch for a stab in the other, the note pressed on the slide would still light up even though it wasn't sounding (so the sound was right, but the visual had a bit of lag). That was not an issue, more of a quirk.

Also, switching between splits, I found I couldn't figure out which split was being controlled by the pedals (I'd set them to sustain and arpeggiator lock) and which wasn't, and what logic governed that.

The stuck notes are most likely caused by either your computer or your software synth being overloaded by too many simultaneous MIDI messages. MPE far exceeds the volume of data that these interfaces were initially designed for; so older computers and software platforms (like Ableton) which have not been optimized for the MPE protocol will often bog-down.

As for the pedal assignments, here's what the manual says:

• "Because the foot switch assignments are global settings, there is a single assignment that applies to whichever split is selected, left or right. And if the Split button is on (split keyboard play), then the foot switch only affects the Selected Split (*the Selected Split is the split selected in the Per-Split Settings screen, and is also indicated by the color of the Split button). For example, if Split is on and the Left Split is the Selected Split, the sustain pedal will only sustain notes on the Left Split.
  
  However, if BOTH SPLITS is on, then when the Split button is on (split keyboard play), the foot switch will affect both splits. For example, if Split is on, the sustain pedal will sustain notes on both the Left and Right Splits."

Cheers!

[jsterne]

Thanks. That explains it.

My computer is....vintage. Someday I’ll invest in a new one. In the meantime I’ll thin out the MIDI data and see if that helps.

[Roger_Linn]

jsterne-- The stuck C2 note could be a problem in your LinnStrument. Are you certain you're not sending any MIDI data back to LinnStrument from the DAW? If you're certain, then the only thing that could be causing LinnStument's note pad to stick on (red light stays on after releasing the pad) would be a faulty sensor, which would be fixed by my sending you a new sensor that you could install yourself by following a video in about 20 minutes.

[jsterne]

Thanks. I think the thing to do is try it with another DAW in the same setting and see. If need be, I'm happy to do the replacement myself.

On the DAW thing, am I right that what I lose in Live if I run in smart midi mode is:

polyphonic pitch bend
polyphonic aftertouch
polyphonic y-axis manipulation

and if I do the kludge as described on your support page, I lose nothing; I just have to do grouped channels and a workaround?

Is there any other disadvantage to Live from a Linnstrument perspective?

I've started messing around with Bitwig just to see but of course it also has some mysteries to it.

[Roger_Linn]

Better yet, reboot your computer and don’t load any applications. Now when you play C2 and release the pad, does the red light stay on? If so, your sensor is the problem.

Your description of the problems with and workarounds for Live when running LinnStrument in One-Channel mode is correct. If you don’t mind those limitations, then working in Live is fine.

[jsterne]

As always, thanks Roger. I'm starting to think Live is the least bad option in terms of what I want to accomplish. Bitwig and MainStage may turn out to have other limitations that may be bigger issues in terms of what I'm actually trying to accomplish musically, but we'll see what Bitwig support says and go from there.

A computer reboot with no audio apps=no stuck button. I was having some issues around the sustain pedal and the note hanging that I'll try to reproduce this weekend. I am guessing it's software or the connection to the computer (it is a 7-year old computer, after all).

[Roger_Linn]

Sounds good. Thanks for letting me know.

[jsterne]

Just a note to say I've now had two practices with Live and once I set up the kludge, there were zero problems. It is robust and fun, and as a longtime live user, I appreciate being able to apply old skills in new ways thanks to the Linnstrument's usefulness for melodic, 3D performance and improvisation in real time. A Max4Live patch called Expression Control allows me to assign any MIDI message to any parameter in a Live set, which means I can create a macro that handles channel send and delay feedback on a return and assign that to aftertouch, and I have other plans beyond that.

One other thing about the Live Kludge: it's not all that "cumbersome" once you figure it out. I actually think the Linnstrument sounds page should be revised to say "straightforward" or "simple" so as not to send people like me running off and wasting time with another DAW. If I'm running 4 voices of Aalto or Ace, all I have to do is set up a group, and save it, and I can use it any time I want. Ditto for Live's instrument where one would use multiple instances. Playing in a band with others, I don't actually want 8 voices at one time--I need to leave room for my bandmates. The 4-voice option is great, and I have it set up for two options at a time, so at any given time I can access two sounds on the Linnstrument by switching between splits. Lastly: Ableton's new Wavetable synth has really good MIDI routing options that allow for lots of expressive control options. It can get very wacky very fast, with Y axis or multitouch controlling many parameters at once.

If your model is to use Linnstrument like a single-instrument controller (to be as realistic and "cello-like" or "piano-like” as possible), I can see how MainStage or something would be preferable, but if you're like me and already think of the laptop as a giant performance sampler, I think Live is still an excellent choice, especially because of all the after market options like ClyphX and Max4Live which allows for a lot of customization specifically for performance and for playing with other people, and the fact that in a single setup you can instantly turn on and off many different devices to save on CPU and RAM.

Bitwig looks promising once they work out a few issues. Sadly, I must report that a tech support query from May is still unanswered, which doesn't give me a lot of confidence in support were I to have a question before a performance or something. Live's support is great, though not as fast as Roger's.

For now, I am going to stop trying to figure out those programs and instead am going to work on sounds and setups for Live. Though of course I will also continue to explore using it with hardware as well.

Thanks for everyone's help in this thread, and depending on what you want to accomplish, I am happy to say that Live is a viable performance option for Linnstrument. For me, as someone switching between bass and synth in a rock band, it works just fine. Yes, it doesn't take advantage of all of the Linnstrument's abilities, but few things do, and sometimes worrying about specs obscure the real point of all this, which is making music. MPE is still new and I expect in the coming years we will see lots of good and better options.

In other words, we should all pay attention to Roger's point about Linnstrument working like any other MIDI controller if we need it to....

[Roger_Linn]

Hi jsterne,

I'm glad Live is working for you and you don't find the required workarounds to be cumbersome.

I do however prefer my current description on the Recommended Sounds page, coupled with the description of the limitations, the workaround and the downloadable sounds file. It's important to remember that 1) many LinnStrument players are more musical than techy and the things that you and I find simple are often difficult for them, and 2) that tab on the Recommended Sounds page is a listing of MPE synths/DAWs, which Live is clearly not, so it is included on the page merely as a convenience for Live users because of its popularity.

That said, Live is a wonderful tool and I'm sure they'll add MPE and poly pressure capabilities at some point, hopefully soon. I also respect Ableton for not rushing features out and instead waiting until they are able to do it correctly.