Retrigger same note (different row) for rapidly playing single note rhythms

[professorSchism]

I've been trying to figure out a way to have a note retrigger when it is pressed in a different location (row). For instance: I would like to alternate rapidly between C3 on row 3 and C3 on row 2 for a very fast rhythm. The problem is that unless I completely release the first note, the repeated note is not retriggered (since there wasn't a Note-off event for the first note). The actual behavior seems a bit inconsistent, but the second note seems to turn off the first note if I don't release the first note fast enough.

It may very well be the job of the synth to handle this, but I just wanted to see if anyone else has had experience with this and get some ideas. I've been trying to get this to work with Alchemy (Logic Studio X Synth), so I might be able to write something to handle the midi in Scripter if I can't find another solution (I guess it would check the note, and if it's the same as the last, add a Note-off value for the previous note before triggering the new one).

I use the Linnstrument in Channel Per Note mode, and would need whatever solution I find to function within this mode. Any ideas?

[Tj Shredder]

I've been trying to figure out a way to have a note retrigger when it is pressed in a different location (row). For instance: I would like to alternate rapidly between C3 on row 3 and C3 on row 2 for a very fast rhythm. The problem is that unless I completely release the first note, the repeated note is not retriggered (since there wasn't a Note-off event for the first note). The actual behavior seems a bit inconsistent, but the second note seems to turn off the first note if I don't release the first note fast enough.

It may very well be the job of the synth to handle this, but I just wanted to see if anyone else has had experience with this and get some ideas. I've been trying to get this to work with Alchemy (Logic Studio X Synth), so I might be able to write something to handle the midi in Scripter if I can't find another solution (I guess it would check the note, and if it's the same as the last, add a Note-off value for the previous note before triggering the new one).

I use the Linnstrument in Channel Per Note mode, and would need whatever solution I find to function within this mode. Any ideas?

I am not sure about Alchemy, but as far I recall its not Logic. The same problem we had in Bitwig, and that had been resolved with the latest betas...
Certainly the Linnstrument does it correctly...
I love to do,that fast playing myself as well...

[BobDog]

Hi,

I just tried with Alchemy in Logic Pro X with the default patch and everything works fine, I can hold a note and retrigger the same note on another row.

I have included a midi file, if you use that midi file on an alchemy track does it work?

Cheers

Andy

[pdxindy]

I believe it is synth dependent. Some synths will play multiple notes of the same pitch and some cut them off.

Zebra can play multiple notes of the same pitch for example.

[Roger_Linn]

Hi professor,

I'm a little confused because in Channel Per Note mode, playing a second note while holding the first will produce a Note On event when the second note is played, regardless of whether the two notes have the same pitch.

So it seems to be a problem with how your synth handles receiving two Note On messages at the same pitch. This is not unusual because such an occurrence is not possible on a MIDI keyboard, so few synth makers test for this.

The above said, yo might be able to workaround your synth's problem by using Linnstrument's Legato mode. To learn about this, open the Panel Settings page, Global Settings tab, then search for "legato".

[dr_loop]

Hi Roger

As a side note:
I know you don't like feature suggestions too much, but one thing I think every proficient guitarist would *love* is:

A true guitar mode!

I.e. an option for the 'ChanPerRow'-mode where *only* the top note per row would play, as it would on a real string.
And if you play two notes on the row *and* release the top note then automatically the bottom note would retrigger.
This would enable techniques similar to 'hammer on' and provide means for *really* fast solos.

[dr_loop]

... forgot to mention:

I know that with many synths you can do that already with MIDI-Monomode, but it would be nice to have this possibility on board, preferably switchable by a switch for rapidly changing playing style.

[John the Savage]

Hi Roger

As a side note:
I know you don't like feature suggestions too much, but one thing I think every proficient guitarist would *love* is:

A true guitar mode!

I.e. an option for the 'ChanPerRow'-mode where *only* the top note per row would play, as it would on a real string.
And if you play two notes on the row *and* release the top note then automatically the bottom note would retrigger.
This would enable techniques similar to 'hammer on' and provide means for *really* fast solos.

There are essentially two ways you can achieve this functionality already, albeit within reason. The first is by using a synth with a proper legato mode and setting it to "high-note priority". The second is by using the LinnStrument's "strum" mode.

From the manual (Per-Split Settings (column 14) - Special):

• 3) STRUM
  If on and Split is also on, you can strum this split to play any notes fingered on the split. For example, select STRUM in the right split, turn the SPLIT button on, then drag your finger forward and backward over the rows in the right split to "strum" any notes fingered in the same row of the left split, similar to strumming a guitar. As your strumming finger passes each row, the notes fingered in that same row on the other split will sound. Note the following:
  
  a) When you finger a note in the opposite split, the note will not sound until you strum it in the Strum split.
  b) If you strum a row that contains no touched notes in the other split, its lowest note pitch will play, similar to strumming open strings on a guitar.
  c) If multiple notes are fingered in a single row, only the highest-pitch note will play.
  d) Hammer-ons and pull-offs can be performed on each row.
  e) Sensitivity of the Strum split is increased while Strum is on.

As a guitar player myself, I personally think that either of the above methods provide a reasonable approximation of the playing technique you're alluding to. Again though, consider the medium. The LinnStrument is its own instrument after all. That it can accommodate the playing styles of so many other instruments is already impressive enough if you ask me.

Cheers!

[dr_loop]

thanks for the tips, I will try that!

The LinnStrument is its own instrument after all. That it can accommodate the playing styles of so many other instruments is already impressive enough if you ask me.

...yes, absolutly! Don't get me wrong, feature suggestions don't mean the LS has deficiencies, it is impressive enough by all means.

But as a hacker by heart, I not only see the LS as a true musical instrument but also as a 'hackers delight'
It has the potential to be a true musical instrument and much more. Even if Roger and most others would disagree, it could be even a versatile DAW controller.

Agreed, it's not meant to be a 'Jack of all trades, master of none' (like the Keith McMillen QuNeo for example)
It's master of many already, but could become master of trades we don't even know of!

[John the Savage]

But do neither of the methods I suggested get you the results you're looking for?

Cheers!

[dr_loop]

... well, I will try. (just not now, I have a billion other things to do in the moment)

- with the synths, I have to look. Might be easy enough.
- with Strum, not so much, as you need both hands and both splits

[Roger_Linn]

I know you don't like feature suggestions too much,

Hi dr_loop,

It’s not that I don’t like feature suggestions, but rather that every product design must have a set of principals that guide the decision of which features to add. If not, I’d end up with a bloated, buggy product that is too confusing for non-techy musicians and doesn’t serve any specific need very well. The guiding principal for LinnStrument is stated on the FAQ page, General tab, under the FAQ “Can you add this feature”:

http://www.rogerlinndesign.com/ls-faqs.html

For requests that fall outside of this set of principles, I’ve 1) including extensive MIDI hooks for external applications, 2) added a User Firmware mode for very deep external applications, and 3) opened the source code for all to modify as they wish.

[John the Savage]

... well, I will try. (just not now, I have a billion other things to do in the moment)

- with the synths, I have to look. Might be easy enough.
- with Strum, not so much, as you need both hands and both splits

Sorry Doc, I only read the body of text below the quote in your first reply. I didn't see the part where you said you'd give my suggestions a try. Anyway, I think using a sound source that allows for legato play will get you the results you're looking for, either high-note or last-note priority would suffice. And again, I'm making this recommendation from the perspective of a career guitarist.

Cheers!

[dr_loop]

Hi Roger

Agreed. And i'm well aware of the neccessity of principals and constraints in product design. And the MIDI-hooks and the User-Firmware-mode are indeed excellent and I already put them to good use.
(I was'nt even aware of them when I bought my LS, so they indeed are a big Plus for me)

But even principals should be evolutionary, and beeing lazy and a former programmer I just can't help thinking in CODE and imagining (seemingly) tiny changes like:
Just put a simple flag in the Note-Release-Procedure and when set look if a note left of it is active and if so, retrigger it.

But I know, in real life it means lot more than just this few lines of code, and it's all good, since, as mentioned, with proper synth programming you can obtain the same result.

[Tj Shredder]

Just put a simple flag in the Note-Release-Procedure and when set look if a note left of it is active and if so, retrigger it.

Please don‘t! It would break MPE. This is only a problem a synth can and should solve. Its a property of a sound, not of the controller...