Building the Sample Mash Device in Max For Live and Ableton Live Suite

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phelan kane
KVR Expert
8 posts since 24 Jul, 2012 from Berlin
KVR Expert

Post Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:18 pm

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... 0Z8Hj4zUTq

Hiya All

My name is Phelan Kane and I am an Ableton Certified Trainer and synth and sampling nut. I've built a series of tutorials guiding you through the creation of the Sample Mash device, a sample playback device via Max For Live and Live 10 Suite. Designed for experimental audio manipulation, the Sample Mash device utilizes random number generators to warp, twist and sculpt audio into new forms.

In part 1 we learn how we can leverage the possibilities of Max For Live audio buffer manipulation to begin to create a unique bespoke audio processing tool.

Anyone here use Max For Live within his or her productions? What are your favourite devices? Do you build your own devise or use devices ‘off the shelf’?

If you have any questions surrounding the tutorial feel free to post a question here and I will do my best to answer them. Part 2 will be posted soon.

Happy patching.

Phe

andrewbrewer
KVRist
61 posts since 5 Dec, 2009

Post Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:46 pm

I use M4L in productions. My favorite right now is Chaos Culture Modulat, and I really like the devices created by "Amazing Noises". I've never built my own device -- I use everything off the shelf.

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phelan kane
KVR Expert
8 posts since 24 Jul, 2012 from Berlin
KVR Expert

Post Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:41 am

Hiya Andrew.

Modualt is awesome. Everything that Isotonik Studios make is great. I'm good friends with Darren who runs it. The Amazing Noises stuff is supa cool too. Their Creative Extensions Pack available for free from the Ableton web site is one of my favorites. Maurizio from Amazing Noise co wrote arguably the best book about M4L and Max, Electronic Music and Sound Design:

https://www.amazon.com/Electronic-Music ... V4YBAGXZYK

I've been using this book as part of my M4L / Max lectures at various Uni's for years. Its highly recommended.

P

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whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth
28481 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Post Sat Jun 20, 2020 4:21 am

Commenting for visibility on this thread(*). Looks interesting.

(* And because I never realised the connection between Amazing Noises and the two EM&SD books.)
"The bearer of this signature is a genuine and authorised pope."

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Tj Shredder
KVRAF
4512 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Post Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:06 am

I am a long time Max user (started with Max 2 or so), but never could relate to Live.
This might be a bit of heresy, but I looked at your Sample Mash introduction and what it can do (the first 3 minutes - skipped through the rest), and tried to recreate, not completely but quick and dirty, that device in Bitwigs Grid. Took me roughly 2 minutes. Skipped the speed buttons and would instead control this with my LinnStrument.
Yes I am still a Maxhead, but Bitwig is inspiring and fast for simple stuff. As soon as it gets more complex, nothing can beat Max/MSP easily, even not M4L...
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phelan kane
KVR Expert
8 posts since 24 Jul, 2012 from Berlin
KVR Expert

Post Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:05 am

Hiya TJ

Glad you built you own version. That’s one of the great things about the landscape of graphical programming environments and the wider community – people hack into existing works and make new stuff. Its supa cool.

I really believe all audio DSP programming environments have their own strengths and weaknesses. For example I have x2 Eventide H8000's and often build algo's in them via VSig. It’s a bit of a clunky way to work but the results sure sound good. I'm also a long time Kyma user and love its flexibility and it sounds absolutely amazing, but often I feel workflow could be a bit smoother. Complexity is awesome but sometimes its just quicker and easier to hard code something in C++ and build a plug-in or an app in JUCE via a few hundred lines of code rather than make a device in a graphical environment that has lots of objects with complicated logic and patching.

Max For Live is more like a software license that allows you to take leverage of every Max object in Live, so there is nothing you cant do in Max For Live that you can do via a Max full license (expect for a few caveats such as edit Gen patches etc.). Every Max/MSP and Jitter object including externals is available in M4L, so in terms of possible complexity Max and M4L offer the same as they are really the same codebase although they are different products.

P

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Tj Shredder
KVRAF
4512 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Post Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:13 am

phelan kane wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:05 am
Max For Live is more like a software license that allows you to take leverage of every Max object in Live, so there is nothing you cant do in Max For Live that you can do via a Max full license (expect for a few caveats such as edit Gen patches etc.).
I once tried to adapt my multi speaker spacialisation patch to M4L, as I got a Live license temporarily on my mac. (I think there is still a buggy version of it @ Maxforlive.com) It was a desaster to patch around the limitations of Live. Though I got it somehow to work.
Out of that experience I would not really support that point of view. Live is too much aimed at stereo setups, has no idea that midi channels contain crucial information and so on... Well that was Live 8 I think...
But don’t listen too much to my senseless ranting. Live inspired enough musicians around the world, whatever lets us get into our personal flow is valuable. And Max did that for me big time...

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phelan kane
KVR Expert
8 posts since 24 Jul, 2012 from Berlin
KVR Expert

Post Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:22 am

@ TJ:

Much has changed since Live v8. There some great features via M4L & Live 10 Suite that offer loads of spacialisation tools. Ableton even have made a Surround Panner that ships in Suite that can handle up to 8 channels.The Plugout~ object in L10 now can feature multiple arguments to address I/O ports on various audio tracks in a Live set. You can use this for spacialisation or routing audio around your Set via the Live Object Model. Its pretty nuts to script your DAW and route multi-track/channel audio around in one click.

IRCAM's Spat5 Externals can be run in M4L, which offer multiple panning algorithms and even B-format and higher order Ambisonics and wavefield synthsis. These use MC objects:

https://forum.ircam.fr/projects/detail/spat/

Envelop make some great multichannel M4L devices that also suit VR/AR and Binaural applications:

https://www.envelop.us/software

No matter which tools you use, its def happy days for spacialisation. I'm currently exploring tapping these into visual tools such as TouchDesigner to create AVFX.

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phelan kane
KVR Expert
8 posts since 24 Jul, 2012 from Berlin
KVR Expert

Post Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:54 pm

Hiya All

Part 2 of the tutorial is now online. In this episode we configure our groove, buffer and waveform objects and start to make some sounds.

If you have any questions feel free to post a question here and I will do my best to answer them. The final part, part 3, is coming up soon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh0AdPSxBPA

Happy patching.

Phe

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fmr
KVRAF
9707 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Post Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:35 am

Commenting just to follow the thread. Very interested in this :-)
Fernando (FMR)

David
KVRAF
1903 posts since 5 Jan, 2003 from Brookings, OR

Post Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:05 pm

Ditto…

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Tj Shredder
KVRAF
4512 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Post Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:23 pm

Why do you patch the extra bang at 1:18? The number passes it through anyway and you could connect the end number directly to info~ I guess...

Keith Prior
KVRer
1 posts since 6 Mar, 2006

Post Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:06 pm

Hi Phelan,
Thanks for the getting into this for us, I'm new to building in Max for Live.
I've followed along with your course videos a couple of times and I'm afraid to say my version of SampleMash isn't fully operational.
Can't figure out why, double checked all parameters.
What can I do?
Thanks
K

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Tj Shredder
KVRAF
4512 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Post Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:22 am

Save your patch and attach it zip compressed here. The copy compress and paste only works on the cycling 74 forums, where you get first class help as well...

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phelan kane
KVR Expert
8 posts since 24 Jul, 2012 from Berlin
KVR Expert

Post Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:25 am

Hiya All

Part 3 of the tutorial is now live. In this tutorial we will finalize you the random number generator to glitch the audio and complete our device.

https://youtu.be/8Uk1TNIEttM

Happy patching

P

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