U-he MPE support

[da10us]

I'm experimenting with MPE per note pitch bend. In Bitwig I manage to program this with XFER Serum. If I swap out Serum for Diva or Zebra2 I can't seem to hear the per note pitch bend. Do I have to enable MPE in U-he synths (like in Serum)? Or do I miss some information?

Cheers!

[Echoes in the Attic]

Have you set the pitch bend range to +/-48? You might want to lock that if changing presets.

Edit: Talking about Diva here. Zebra is not MPE compatible.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

All MPE features except for Release Velocity should work in the post-Zebra U-he synths. So Diva, RePro, Hive, Ace, Bazille, etc. all play very, very nicely with MPE. Zebra2, on the other hand, is the least MPE-compatible synth in the catalog because of the way the voice structure or whatever was written all those years ago - so not hearing polyphonic pitchbend on Zebra2 is expected behavior. For the others, you may want to just make sure you're using the newest builds available at the top of the forum if you're still running into problems.

Note: there's a "multichannel MIDI" filter on the U-he Products page that removes some synths. They'll probably need to update that to add RePro in the future, but you'll notice that Zebra2 disappears. So don't just take my word for it.

[keckpot]

Hi!

I'm having some problems with using the mod wheel with MPE-enabled u-he synths in Bitwig.

After enabling MPE in Bitwig's device inspector and setting the PB range, it seems to work correctly for the most part, e.g. I can now use Bitwig's per-note "micro-pitch expressions" in the piano roll.

However, the mod wheel does not seem to work anymore once MPE is enabled. I can see it moving up and down in the UI, so my changes (and my automation) are registered, but the modulation targets are not affected. Is this expected behavior? In other synths, the modwheel works fine with Bitwig's MPE mode.

Using the MIDI table to assign controls to the mod wheel still works in MPE mode. So in Hive, I can assign the modwheel to an XY pad and use that for modulation, but this workaround is only available in Hive (and inconvenient when using presets).

In Repro-5, the "Wheel Mod" section works with the modwheel, but not the mod matrix.

Thanks!

EDIT: OK, I think, I figured it out. I just read that u-he synths don't have a master channel for MPE. The Hive manual also mentions, that "each voice responds independently to CC#1". I guess, that Bitwig always sends CC#1 on channel 1 while the notes are distributed across the channels (even if they arrive on one channel).

I'm still confused, why the modwheel is shown as working in the UI and why it is working in Repro-5's "WHEEL MOD" section.

[EvilDragon]

Because a certain CC #1 is received, and u-he synths listen across all 16 MIDI channels. You will just need to duplicate CC #1 across all 16 channels.

[keckpot]

That did the trick, thank you!

[Teawhyelleare]

EDIT: OK, I think, I figured it out. I just read that u-he synths don't have a master channel for MPE. The Hive manual also mentions, that "each voice responds independently to CC#1". I guess, that Bitwig always sends CC#1 on channel 1 while the notes are distributed across the channels (even if they arrive on one channel).

I'm still confused, why the modwheel is shown as working in the UI and why it is working in Repro-5's "WHEEL MOD" section.

Because a certain CC #1 is received, and u-he synths listen across all 16 MIDI channels. You will just need to duplicate CC #1 across all 16 channels.

Please forgive my reviving this older thread with my ignorance, but would you mind expanding on this process? I just came with the same issue, and can't seem to figure out how to make Hive or Diva work properly with my linnstrument.

I experience mostly the same behavior as keckpot. I would also add that the mod wheel loses functionality when assigned to CC #1. Like, I can drag it with my mouse, and it has no effect on the sound. Is this because Hive is responding on only one channel, which presumably the mod wheel graphic is tied to somehow (or perhaps the graphic animates with any channel movement?), while the 15 other channels are not receiving any data?

How does one duplicate CC #1 across all 16 channels? Is this something that needs to be replicated in each new instance/patch/etc?

[jsterne]

I'm having the same problem. Mod wheel (aka Y axis) is having no effect in Diva. I turned off master channel for MPE on my Linnstrument, and I've enabled MPE on Diva in Bitwig, and I'm getting no response from the mod wheel. I've tried both the cc 1 and cc 74 settings on Linnstrument. Pitch bend and pressure respond as expected.

I also double checked: mod wheel is working on other plugins. Help?!?

[Teawhyelleare]

Could we please get some help and perhaps some more complete documentation on this Urs/u-he family? I haven't investigated this much further after my last post, as it became too frustrating and distracting and defeating.. :p but I get the feeling that there is something simple that I am (we are) missing.

I've read through all of the manuals and I have gone through some forums and videos and hack-y workarounds, but I still don't get it, really. Proper configurations don't seem to be publicly documented.

[keckpot]

For Bitwig I made myself a device which listens to MIDI CC1 messages (using a MIDI modulator) which in turn controls 16 MIDI CC devices in a chain, one for each MIDI channel. So a CC1 message on one channel is replicated to all channels, as was suggested by EvilDragon. When I place this device in front of Hive, I can use my mod wheel even in MPE mode.

[Viktor [TUC]]

Guys, I should mention that we do not have full official MPE support, nor have we ever claimed we did.
As you can find in our user guides, what our plugins can understand is something we named "Multichannel MIDI", so our corresponding plugins listen to all 16 MIDI channels at once and can process performance controls for each channel independantly, i.e. modwheel, pitchbend, aftertouch, etc. (see user guides for more info)

It works well enough in most DAWs if you have a controller that can send "round-robin" MIDI notes. Occasional workarounds might be necessary if e.g. some hosts always route incoming MIDI to channel 1, or such things.
So, in cases where such workarounds become necessary, please consider to also contact the DAW developer's support or post in their forum for a "how to" guide, please don't expect us to know everything about every DAW.
I mean, we do know a lot, but in this case, also consider that the respective DAW forum might be another good place to ask.

Viktor

[Viktor [TUC]]

That being said, I did manage to replicate what the lovely fellas before me pointed out, and that does work for MIDI CCs, with the plugin in MPE mode. Couldn't get any pitchbend or aftertouch to map the same way though, so if anyone has an idea, let's hear it.
I added one "MIDI CC" Device in front of Diva, then set it up as shown in the screenshot, then duplicated it a few so that I ended up with one for each channel, then only changed the channel in subsequent module, the rest stayed the same in the devices.
(Thanks, keckpot!)

B3_Map_MW_to_16_Chan.jpg

[Echoes in the Attic]

Doesn't linnstrument send mod wheel on all channels if you take off Channel one on the main channel selector (linnstrument per split settings > Midi channels)?

[jsterne]

Yes, the Linnstrument does do that. And the problem with the mod wheel on the Linnstrument is DAW-independent (same issue in Live as Bitwig), so it is definitely on the Diva.

[Teawhyelleare]

Guys, I should mention that we do not have full official MPE support, nor have we ever claimed we did.
As you can find in our user guides, what our plugins can understand is something we named "Multichannel MIDI", so our corresponding plugins listen to all 16 MIDI channels at once and can process performance controls for each channel independantly, i.e. modwheel, pitchbend, aftertouch, etc. (see user guides for more info)

It works well enough in most DAWs if you have a controller that can send "round-robin" MIDI notes. Occasional workarounds might be necessary if e.g. some hosts always route incoming MIDI to channel 1, or such things.
So, in cases where such workarounds become necessary, please consider to also contact the DAW developer's support or post in their forum for a "how to" guide, please don't expect us to know everything about every DAW.
I mean, we do know a lot, but in this case, also consider that the respective DAW forum might be another good place to ask.

Viktor

That makes a lot of sense... I apologize for my part in placing the burden on you. Totally my bad. I definitely understand the perspective that you presented, and will put it to good use moving forward. I thought the thread was dying before all of us had an answer/workable solution, as happens from time to time around here, and failed to remember any other u-he user names on the fly, so I just tagged Urs to hopefully create movement it didn't occur to me to get after bitwig support, as I haven't struggled to set up any other MPE friendly synths in it before.

"Better multicore, better MPE support, better voice handling, better everything!" Got me all hyped, and since y'all are known wizards, I figured you would know how to accomplish solutions in most any common DAW off hand, and would have perhaps documented procedures anyway.

That being said, I did manage to replicate what the lovely fellas before me pointed out, and that does work for MIDI CCs, with the plugin in MPE mode. Couldn't get any pitchbend or aftertouch to map the same way though, so if anyone has an idea, let's hear it.
I added one "MIDI CC" Device in front of Diva, then set it up as shown in the screenshot, then duplicated it a few so that I ended up with one for each channel, then only changed the channel in subsequent module, the rest stayed the same in the devices.
(Thanks, keckpot!)

B3_Map_MW_to_16_Chan.jpg

Thanks Viktor (and everyone participating)! I really appreciate your time, your help, and the explicit and concise guide. Please forgive my ignorance on the topic.. Not sure why the previous written words weren't making the concept click.. your post makes it all crystal clear! This is fantastic

I'm playing right now.. I think that there is promise in the "expressions" module, but nothing conclusive yet. I will post back with any interesting ideas!