Overpriced Spitfire products

[Kongru]

yeah, go ahead and make yourself more stupid saying this doesnt sound good.
https://soundcloud.com/layzerkvr/ramirez-precious-time

Without a hint of trolling, it does not sound good

It's a completely static sample buried in effects to sound 'effective'. Doesn't make it a good cello sample.

I mean, Spitfire recently recorded some big-name orchestra I forget at the moment, the library costs like 1000, and I can almost guarantee you they did so for the above reasons — it sells.

The BBC Symphony Orchestra.

[ians]

They also hire out often Abbey Road studios

AIR studios.

Sorry, I meant Air Studios

[Gamma-UT]

yeah, go ahead and make yourself more stupid saying this doesnt sound good.
https://soundcloud.com/layzerkvr/ramirez-precious-time

It sounds fine in the context of being a synthetic source and that's all you want. But what happens when the director or production manager on your project asks "why doesn't it sound like a real cello? You know these cues need to sound natural"? You're making stuff for your own enjoyment and aesthetic. A lot of people (admittedly not all) buying Spitfire libraries and the like aren't.

You could also do a lot to make it sound more natural, like riding the modwheel for volume modulation and differentiate between legato and marcato attacks.

The reality is, whenever you wade in like this, you make an impressive argument for the opposite of what you want to get across.

[AnX]

I have no idea how much it costs to hire a pro cellist, studio, recording and then editing time for such a project, but it certainly won't be cheap

maybe that is reflected in the price

[resynthesis]

MU rates for orchestra can be found here but there can be additional charges based on the amount of recorded music.

https://www.musiciansunion.org.uk/Home/ ... Agreements

Bigger studios are somewhere around £3-4000 / day I believe (dunno about Lyndhurst though)

[Gribs]

I like their synth-type and keyboard stuff. I do not consider myself to be sufficiently knowledgeable or skilled to be able to use orchestral libraries in general so I don't buy them. Maybe if and when I retire I will start studying composition and arrangement, but right now it is just not possible. I would guess their most common customer is music students?

[Obsolete236871]

I like their synth-type and keyboard stuff. I do not consider myself to be sufficiently knowledgeable or skilled to be able to use orchestral libraries in general so I don't buy them. Maybe if and when I retire I will start studying composition and arrangement, but right now it is just not possible. I would guess their most common customer is music students?

Besides music / composition / film scoring professionals and students, there is also a huge crowd of 'epic style', 'trailer music' and 'modern classic' producers out there (many of them amateur and semi-pro level). Not to mention that orchestral sounds and classical instruments (strings, brass, woodwinds etc) can obviously also be used in modern / popular music genres. There is plenty of resources out there to learn about basic concepts in music composition by the way, but obviously it's a huge field that typically requires a more in-depth and comprehensive understanding of music theory, instrumentation (which instruments play along well etc.), arrangement etc than your average electro synth song.

[jancivil]

quit buying their products and use freeware that doesnt come with a billion GBs of redundant samples
just an idea,

So we can use crappy Cello samples that you seem to think actually sound good and as good as real sample libraries? Yeah, not a chance.

if you have any MUSIC SKILL at all you can make even a crappy cello sample sound good. STFU

yeah, go ahead and make yourself more stupid saying this doesnt sound good.
https://soundcloud.com/layzerkvr/ramirez-precious-time

... it sounds more like a vuvuzela.

[vurt]

I have no idea how much it costs to hire a pro cellist, studio, recording and then editing time for such a project, but it certainly won't be cheap

maybe that is reflected in the price

indeed! all the articulations and velocity layering
editing and mapping it all to be a playable "cello" rather than a bunch of static samples playing a cello line or worse still, layzers badly recorded kazoo through distortion.

quality costs.
so expensive, perhaps, overpriced, hell no.

[zvenx]

.............
quality costs.
so expensive, perhaps, overpriced, hell no.

This!
rsp

[AngelCityOutlaw]

If these libraries were not overpriced, they'd not have sales every second week.

The price you pay on sale is what it's actually worth. Having a higher regular price makes it look like you're always getting this awesome deal. There's also the fact that no one buys anything now unless it's on sale; I've had devs tell me they never sell anything unless it's on a sale. Most people can't afford or aren't willing to pay regular price

East west's 20-year-old, barebones, ethnic music library (which I own) is a regular 399 USD...after all this time



Eduardo Tarilonte's Era libraries, which are better in every possible way, have way more instruments and articulations, are easily some of the best and most-playable and realistic sample libraries I've ever owned, are a regular 259. I can't say that I've ever seen them on sale.



I can't imagine an argument that one could make to say that Ra isn't "overpriced"

[vurt]

If these libraries were not overpriced, they'd not have sales every second week.

The price you pay on sale is what it's actually worth. Having a higher regular price makes it look like you're always getting this awesome deal. There's also the fact that no one buys anything now unless it's on sale; I've had devs tell me they never sell anything unless it's on a sale. Most people can't afford or aren't willing to pay regular price

East west's 20-year-old, barebones, ethnic music library (which I own) is a regular 399 USD...after all this time



Eduardo Tarilonte's Era libraries, which are better in every possible way, have way more instruments and articulations, are easily some of the best and most-playable and realistic sample libraries I've ever owned, are a regular 259. I can't say that I've ever seen them on sale.



I can't imagine an argument that one could make to say that Ra isn't "overpriced"

so what you are saying is "i agree spitfire products are overpriced because this east west product is overpriced"?

and you want people who said "spitfire products arent overpriced" to make an argument to support that statement, but base the argument on an east west product?

which one of us is high?

[Gamma-UT]

I have concluded from AngelCityOutlaw's argument that Chewbacca is a Wookie who lives on Endor.

[koolkeys]

I think Vurt hit the nail on the head. Expensive is not the same as overpriced.

Obviously, the OP is not specifically talking about "expensive", and in his case, is making the argument that the library isn't worth what is being charged. That isn't necessarily "wrong" because it's up to each person to decide that.

But the complaint is more about a personal preference, one that isn't shared by everyone. So is it really overpriced? Or just not what you thought you were getting? Because I'll certainly admit that not every Spitfire library is "great" for what I would need, I hardly think that a -6db volume level qualifies as making a library "bad". It's just the approach they took.

I think we've become a little spoiled over the years for choice, and there are some developers who drive prices down on their products, and we all of a sudden suggest that somebody like Spitfire is overpriced. But I think if you were to receive the bill they have to pay just to make these libraries, it would blow your mind. How much does it cost to pay 90-100 (or more) professional musicians to sit there and play for 2-4 weeks in a world-class full-size recording facility? I don't know. But it's certainly not cheap. And then you have the hundreds of hours of audio editing, interface coding, script programming, quality control (even if things do slip through the cracks), and yes, marketing. Plus support reps, server costs for downloading between dozens and hundreds of gigabytes per user.......it's insane.

Sure, there are some products that have "retail" prices that are a bit ridiculous. EastWest have a different strategy than Spitfire, and one that revolves around their Composer Cloud (which I am a subscriber of, and love it). So we can't really compare their "retail" prices of old libraries to the retail prices of Spitfire libraries.

Somebody also suggested above that "all" of the big name orchestral libraries are overpriced and pretty crap at writing music, but that's just a silly statement. Loads of professional composers are using those same libraries, and many of those libraries are insanely detailed. Of course, some have consistency issues, and there are bugs, and not every product is a hit.

But to suggest that something like the BBC Orchestra was only sampled because it sells, but suggest that it isn't musical, is just not right. Sure, it sells. But it's also an insanely usable and detailed library.

And Spitfire is also not one to go simple on articulation sampling. They have articulations in some of their libraries that I've never seen anywhere else. They aren't lazy by any stretch, just creating libraries that scratch the surface so they can get some quick sales. Spitfire wouldn't be making these super expensive libraries and paying those massive bills if their libraries weren't being bought. They are doing something right.

All that to say this; while everyone will have a personal opinion of value, the suggestion that something is "overpriced" is a bit more tricky. It's not like Spitfire can just release their orchestra libraries for $50 because "10 times more people will buy it". They price it in a way that allows them to keep making libraries. They certainly aren't perfect, and their libraries have poor spots in them. But they also released a Hanz Zimmer Strings update just last month that was something like 60GB of new samples with lots of fixes included. They are certainly not overpricing their libraries.

If you are looking for instant gratification and the ability to score a movie in 4 hours, these aren't the libraries to do it. They take work, understanding of the instruments and harmony, etc. But we need a little perspective on just what we are getting.

Brent

[koolkeys]

If these libraries were not overpriced, they'd not have sales every second week.

The price you pay on sale is what it's actually worth. Having a higher regular price makes it look like you're always getting this awesome deal. There's also the fact that no one buys anything now unless it's on sale; I've had devs tell me they never sell anything unless it's on a sale. Most people can't afford or aren't willing to pay regular price

Not true, IMO, about that meaning they are overpriced. I think people just have become more accustomed to waiting for sales. And sure, the market sets the value. But that isn't because the libraries are overpriced for what they are worth. It's just a balance they have found that works. Every dev is different though, and yes, some devs certainly hike the "regular" price up to make sales look better. But I don't think it's an automatic sign of being overpriced.

East west's 20-year-old, barebones, ethnic music library (which I own) is a regular 399 USD...after all this time

EastWest is playing a different game though. Yes, they rely on sales, but they keep the "regular" prices higher to help sell their subscription service, which is an amazing value. Considering that many of their libraries DID sell for full price, and sell well, for many years, I'd say that their regular price is reasonable in some cases. "Regular" price doesn't actually have to come down. That's just the original retail price they set.

Eduardo Tarilonte's Era libraries, which are better in every possible way, have way more instruments and articulations, are easily some of the best and most-playable and realistic sample libraries I've ever owned, are a regular 259. I can't say that I've ever seen them on sale.

His libraries are great, but better in every possible way? I wouldn't say that at all. Depends on the library.

Look at something like Celtic ERA. Amazing library. But we're talking about 7 total players (one of them was Eduardo himself) playing 23 instruments, most of which don't require the deeper sampling that many orchestral instruments require, and only using a small studio with a much smaller recording setup. Again, amazing library (I own it), but you can't exactly compare that to something like Hollywood Orchestra or the Spitfire orchestras in terms of detail and value. Apples and Oranges.

Brent