Overpriced Spitfire products

Sampler and Sampling discussion (techniques, tips and tricks, etc.)
stearine
KVRist
165 posts since 6 Jun, 2019

Post Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:59 pm

koolkeys wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:03 pm
I can assure you that the "overpriced" libraries you speak of can absolutely play the music that many people write.
After reading the entire thread: Not to be a dick but you're such a long way out of your league here that no wall of text can bury the fact. You'd be better off spending the time just sitting back to figure out why you're arguing in the first place?

Mr Arkadin
KVRAF
1581 posts since 11 Mar, 2003

Re: Overpriced Spitfire products

Post Sat Jan 11, 2020 1:10 pm

stearine wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:59 pm
Not to be a dick
And yet you managed it with aplomb. Well done!

stearine
KVRist
165 posts since 6 Jun, 2019

Re: Overpriced Spitfire products

Post Sat Jan 11, 2020 1:29 pm

Mr Arkadin wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 1:10 pm
stearine wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:59 pm
Not to be a dick
And yet you managed it with aplomb. Well done!
What can I say? It was painful to watch. Think of it what you will.

User avatar
Gamma-UT
KVRAF
5269 posts since 8 Jun, 2009 from UK

Re: Overpriced Spitfire products

Post Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:09 pm

stearine wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:59 pm
koolkeys wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:03 pm
I can assure you that the "overpriced" libraries you speak of can absolutely play the music that many people write.
After reading the entire thread: Not to be a dick but you're such a long way out of your league here that no wall of text can bury the fact.
How so?

Which bit did you take issue with? Or were you just hoping you could do a hit and run?

SupraAudio
KVRer
1 posts since 11 Jan, 2020

Re: Overpriced Spitfire products

Post Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:09 pm

I'm not a fan of Spitfire, I've tried their LABS instruments and found most of them either badly edited ( the felt piano) or just useless. I'm not impressed at all by the sound quality, they sound really dull to my ears.

Worse, the LABS app is buggy and I had to send a support request in order to make it work. There are already tons of freebies out there that just work out of the box and they are often done by one-man operations.

koolkeys
KVRAF
16117 posts since 2 Dec, 2003 from Nashville, TN

Re: Overpriced Spitfire products

Post Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:50 pm

stearine wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:59 pm
koolkeys wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:03 pm
I can assure you that the "overpriced" libraries you speak of can absolutely play the music that many people write.
After reading the entire thread: Not to be a dick but you're such a long way out of your league here that no wall of text can bury the fact. You'd be better off spending the time just sitting back to figure out why you're arguing in the first place?
I got a good laugh out of your post. Thanks for adding great value to the conversation. I'll still be here when you actually have a point.

Brent
My host is better than your host

koolkeys
KVRAF
16117 posts since 2 Dec, 2003 from Nashville, TN

Re: Overpriced Spitfire products

Post Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:54 pm

SupraAudio wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:09 pm
I'm not a fan of Spitfire, I've tried their LABS instruments and found most of them either badly edited ( the felt piano) or just useless. I'm not impressed at all by the sound quality, they sound really dull to my ears.

Worse, the LABS app is buggy and I had to send a support request in order to make it work. There are already tons of freebies out there that just work out of the box and they are often done by one-man operations.
To be fair, the Labs libraries are usually more experimental or supplemental samples, and don't usually get much in terms of advanced scripting or playability. That's why they are free.

As for their player, they have had some bugs, some fixed, others remaining. I haven't had many on my end but I know others do have issues from time to time. The player is still young though and trying to recreate all that functionality was a pretty big task. So hopefully they will continue to improve the software itself.

I have never found much use out of most of their Labs stuff, while I do get a ton of use from their other libraries. But there is a gem or two in Labs.

Brent
My host is better than your host

yellowmix
KVRAF
1506 posts since 11 Aug, 2012 from omfr morf form romf frmo

Re: Overpriced Spitfire products

Post Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:33 pm

SupraAudio wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:09 pm
I'm not a fan of Spitfire, I've tried their LABS instruments and found most of them either badly edited ( the felt piano) or just useless. I'm not impressed at all by the sound quality, they sound really dull to my ears.

Worse, the LABS app is buggy and I had to send a support request in order to make it work. There are already tons of freebies out there that just work out of the box and they are often done by one-man operations.
The LABS instruments used to be donation-based (to a charity, I don't remember which), $3 apiece. It was understood they were not comparable to fully-developed instruments, as they lacked scripting. They were bare Kontakt patches.

Many were experimental or unusual (e.g., Bike Bells, Office Light Shadres) but sampled competently. Some came from recording sessions for their main products (e.g., Frozen Strings). Some have been used in their productions (e.g., Peel Guitar). There were definitely some narrow use cases but there were also some broad ones. They have not released all the previous LABS but what has been released is plenty useable. And they've released some brand-new LABS too.

Here's a series of songs made with at least two LABS instruments by a composer who challenged himself to a song-a-day for 30 days: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... _X0UZ-p41j

In the LABS app I find many of the patches are drenched in reverb by default. So I suggest turning it off completely. The dry signal won't be smeared and perhaps not be as "dull" sounding.

Creating a sample-based instrument plugin from scratch is a pretty big undertaking for a small company like Spitfire. Their core competency is in the sampling and scripting, so they probably had to contract out the development. And to create one so people didn't need Kontakt full (like their previous Labs offerings) makes them a lot more accessible to a lot more people around the world.

They've been updating the apps regularly. For a brand-new free product outside their core competency what more can one feel entitled to?

stearine
KVRist
165 posts since 6 Jun, 2019

Re: Overpriced Spitfire products

Post Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:41 pm

koolkeys wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:50 pm
I got a good laugh out of your post. Thanks for adding great value to the conversation. I'll still be here when you actually have a point.
No you didn't. I'd be delighted by your promise to "be here" for discussion if it weren't for the last few pages of demonstrating that you're unable to get a point.

User avatar
Gamma-UT
KVRAF
5269 posts since 8 Jun, 2009 from UK

Re: Overpriced Spitfire products

Post Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:47 pm

stearine wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:41 pm
koolkeys wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:50 pm
I got a good laugh out of your post. Thanks for adding great value to the conversation. I'll still be here when you actually have a point.
No you didn't. I'd be delighted by your promise to "be here" for discussion if it weren't for the last few pages of demonstrating that you're unable to get a point.
What point is that exactly? You’re not doing very well on specifics.

stearine
KVRist
165 posts since 6 Jun, 2019

Re: Overpriced Spitfire products

Post Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:02 pm

Gamma-UT wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:47 pm
What point is that exactly? You’re not doing very well on specifics.
That is accurate. Since you ask twice, this time without provocation, I can believe you're giving me the benefit of doubt so I shall return the favor and assume you're sincere. I can attempt to rephrase and/or elaborate what I believe the point is, but since AngelCityOutlaw already dissected the whole scheme like a surgeon I can't promise it's not going to sound like echoes. I'll need to get at a keyboard to write anything but snarky oneliners though and that won't be today.

koolkeys
KVRAF
16117 posts since 2 Dec, 2003 from Nashville, TN

Re: Overpriced Spitfire products

Post Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:50 pm

stearine wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:41 pm
koolkeys wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:50 pm
I got a good laugh out of your post. Thanks for adding great value to the conversation. I'll still be here when you actually have a point.
No you didn't. I'd be delighted by your promise to "be here" for discussion if it weren't for the last few pages of demonstrating that you're unable to get a point.
I didn't what? Get a laugh? "No you didn't"......what is this, 2nd grade?

I assure you, I found it funny. Kind of a pity laugh in a way because you're trying hard to be a clever troll but falling well short. You've literally lowered the IQ of the entire conversation in just four posts........well done.

But hey, if that's your game, and you feel better after hitting submit, who am I to stop you, or even care? Have at it. I don't lose sleep over what some random guy on a forum thinks about my posts.

But I'll be here. Just not sure there will be much worth waiting on if your last couple of posts are anything to go by.

Brent
My host is better than your host

elxsound
KVRAF
5392 posts since 18 Aug, 2007 from NYC

Re: Overpriced Spitfire products

Post Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:32 pm

Not really seeing the point of making it all so personal...

Anyway, using Spitfire libraries is buying into a workflow (check their workflow videos) that is very similar across their libraries. Their Grid is found in multiple libraries as well as the eDNA engine used in multiple libraries.

Familiarity is very key in meeting deadlines (which is a common theme for their marketing on new releases).

They're probably not created for the general user, but are created for a specific user which is why I'm guessing they priced their libraries the way they do (less users, less buyers, so a premium price to offset sales).

And as mentioned... LABS is not what I'd judge their products on. They're quirky. I only have the former Kontakt Labs (as mentioned bought through a charity donation) but I found them useful, including the felt piano and Henson's Frozen Strings. For the small cost, I expected quirky and limited and got just that.

With all that mentioned, IMO they do seem to have an interest in expanding their user base, so maybe the criticisms are not such a bad thing to hear which should contrast well against the usual positive feedback from their existing user base.

lfm
KVRAF
5201 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden

Re: Overpriced Spitfire products

Post Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:44 pm

kevvvvv wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:54 am
OP said
most of the samples are set very, very low volume, some of them are almost inaudible. The user is supposed manually change the volume settings of each of the library instruments, to get them playable.
I wrote to Spitfire with this issue, and their simple answer was they left lots of headroom for mod wheel dynamic volume adjustments.
It's a good argument, I think.

In the digital world we often forget about dynamics and keep everything at -6->-12 dB peaks or so.

We've had many threads on the subject of hardware vs software synths - and I think more dynamics headroom are there in hardware, and why some think they sound better. Not the whole story of course, just a part of it.

If we see digital going below -20 dB we get a raised pulse and cannot breath properly - kind of reaction. Even below that, call 911 :D

Listening to classical music it goes way lower in sections. Conductors interpret composers attentions in the score or just change to own preference.

Beginning mixing I tended to stack way to much on top of each other - and thought more will make more power, kind of. We must make mixes breath a bit - then we can feel dynamics when it comes. Listening to classical composers it's there all the time.

The sausage shape mixes, I saw the expression the other day, is fatiguing to ears.

I have a vinyl on this - and though sounding very modern very dynamic too -:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVDC6kPCkWA

Maybe the most brilliant mixes ever - it never get boring.
Last edited by lfm on Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

elxsound
KVRAF
5392 posts since 18 Aug, 2007 from NYC

Re: Overpriced Spitfire products

Post Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:51 pm

lfm wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:44 pm
kevvvvv wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:54 am
OP said
most of the samples are set very, very low volume, some of them are almost inaudible. The user is supposed manually change the volume settings of each of the library instruments, to get them playable.
I wrote to Spitfire with this issue, and their simple answer was they left lots of headroom for mod wheel dynamic volume adjustments.
It's a good argument, I think.

In the digital world we often forget about dynamics and keep everything at -6->-12 dB peaks or so.

We've had many threads on the subject of hardware vs software synths - and I think more dynamics headroom are there in hardware, and why some think they sound better. Not the whole story of course, just a part of it.

If we see digital going below -20 dB we get a raised pulse and cannot breath properly - kind of reaction. Even below that, call 911 :D

Listening to classical music it goes way lower in sections. Conductors interpret composers attentions in the score or just change to own preference.

Beginning mixing I tended to stack way to much on top of each other - and thought more will make more power, kind of. We must make mixes breath a bit - then we can feel dynamics when it comes. Listening to classical composers it's there all the time.

The sausage shape mixes, I saw the expression the other day, is fatique to ears.
Agreed...

I'd only be concerned if turning it up introduced hissing, which is not the case here.

And you can still shape it like a sausage later, but you can't un add it. Look at Albion V Tundra... They are specifically going to the opposite direction here. You're not going to recreate this simply by turning down something like Output's Analog Strings. Different tools for different uses.

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