2CAudio Precedence | 1.5 | Move Out Of Flatland. Take Precedence.

[Andrew Souter]

Sorry if it was already asked but is this product mainly for orchestral stuff or this can benefit any kind of music types?

Any and all music types will benefit for sure.

Also, is the mixing process really different when using this?

EQ, Compression, Limiting, misc FX usage would all remain the same and come from whatever other tools you are already using.

Gain mixing, and automation of gain, would remain the same most likely, although it is possible to use extreme "Gain Loss" values now in Precedence using the "X-Range" setting, and in this mode it is hypothetically possible to simply keep track faders at 0.0dB and Precedence will handle gain mixing also. We consider this an extra bonus feature. I guess most users will want to continue to use the DAW track faders for gain adjustment particularly bc gain if often automated.

For all topics related to "spatial mixing", this system is very novel and extremely powerful and achieves many things that previous tools could not. It's a unified "spatial mixing environment" that combines imaging, width manipulation, psychoacoustic panning/positioning, psychoacoustic depth/distance positioning, and effectively creates a algorithmic multiple impulse response system. The new updates also make managing many instance a pleasure and breeze to use so that you can actually get a proper feel for how to integrate all of this in a very efficient workflow.

All combined it's a bit of a revolution for spatial mixing IMHO...

[Andrew Souter]

This is quite amazing, just been playing around for a couple of hours this morning and I'm very impressed. The main thing I've noticed is that with just 3 or 4 carefully placed elements you can create a mix that already sounds pretty full and well glued together. I've always considered expert use of reverb to be one of the most advanced skills in mix engineering and playing around with this has made me realise just how much I still have to learn in that respect!

thanks for the compliments.

1. If freshly added instances of Precedence and Breeze could inherit the DAW track name that would be amazing (like Fabfilter Pro-Q3)

We hope to do this eventually. It may require VST3 which will still have to do, probably a little longer than the next one...

2. If you link an instance of Precedence and Breeze and the name defaults to the ID001 for example, it would be cool if the linked instance automatically updated its name to reflect name edits in the other instance - would save some duplicate typing.

We hope to do this sooner than later. Hopefully within the next month.

3. It would be cool to have a button to 'propagate current settings' to all instances, mainly for Breeze rather than Precedence. I have found myself tweaking the first reverb I add to a track, then wanting to copy those settings to all other reverbs (but not via a preset change).

This is what Global Broadcast does. It works with ANY parameter change, not just preset changes.

If you turn on Global Broadcast in Precedence, and you change Width, for example, you are changing this value for ALL instances in the Edit Group. Not just the currently selected one!

4. I know you've explained before why you don't allow realtime parameter modulation in your plugins, but as someone that makes pretty psychedelic electronic music, I am salivating at the prospect of being able to move things around this virtual space in realtime. Even if it sent CPU usage up tenfold I would still LOVE this as an optional mode. I assume there's a ton of underlying DSP you'd have to change to enable this though so probably not likely!

would be fun for sure. it's in the back of our minds. thinking of how to achieve it in the best way...

[Hez]

3. It would be cool to have a button to 'propagate current settings' to all instances, mainly for Breeze rather than Precedence. I have found myself tweaking the first reverb I add to a track, then wanting to copy those settings to all other reverbs (but not via a preset change).

This is what Global Broadcast does. It works with ANY parameter change, not just preset changes.

If you turn on Global Broadcast in Precedence, and you change Width, for example, you are changing this value for ALL instances in the Edit Group. Not just the currently selected one!

Thanks for the quick response Andrew. I probably wasn't clear here - I meant a single button that sends all current settings (except instance specific/linked settings like Distance) on the panel of the open Breeze instance to all other Breezes in the group, assuming Global Broadcast is enabled.

For example, say I add a new project, add my first Precedence/Breeze combo to a track, then dial in reverb settings that I like, not from a preset.

I now add a new track and add another Precedence & Breeze combo. The new Breeze obviously has default settings, and I'd like to be able to go back to the first Breeze and quickly propagate all the parameters of my custom dialled in instance to the new Breeze instance. Obviously I could copy the first Breeze instance instead of instantiating a new one, but if I forget to do this it would be good to be able to go back to my first dialled in reverb and quickly propagate it across the rest of the project/group in one click.

[Andrew Souter]

Really fantastic after i played with the new features.

Thanks!

The only thing i also miss would be renaming the ID numbers to user names like "synth", "bass", "cellos", "violins" etc....

Thats possible already, as Simon said. Just double click and rename. At the moment you need to rename in both Precedence and Breeze if they are linked. Renaming only one will break the link between them, as you can see bc the font color/fomating will change. The names must be the same in both plugs to establish active linking and Selection Sync.

Oh i would still like to have the sliders for the color changes as automation parameter....just for the light show

that might require an FDA approval.

Maybe for the EQ something like overlays instances like Fabfilter-Pro-Q 3....o.k. that´s too much of course

could be cool

(But i could also imagine overlaying the Precedence instances and see all the "dots" of the different positions where i could tap on each).

ooh.. you're missing a very big part of the update! Multi-Instance Editing, and Edit Groups. Try this:

• new host project
  new audio track
  add Precedence, click on Group in the nav bar so that is shows Global Broadcast and Group Number 1.
  close the GUI
  duplicate the track 3 times
  open the GUI for track 1

you will start with all 4 instances in the same position. drag them around to different locations and you will see you can see all 4 instances within the same GUI. not only can you see them, but you can actually EDIT them! And ALL other parameters on the GUI follow the selection in the position display too!

See the manual starting on page 30. it explains all this stuff in detail.

This is VERY POWERFUL stuff. Denis did an amazing job with the Multi-Edit features!

However, so far the most useful FX plug-ins i own.
Thank you very much.....now i still wait for my head to explode for the Kaleidoscope next step....i do not forgot your interview

thanks!

[Andrew Souter]

Thanks for the quick response Andrew. I probably wasn't clear here - I meant a single button that sends all current settings (except instance specific/linked settings like Distance) on the panel of the open Breeze instance to all other Breezes in the group, assuming Global Broadcast is enabled.

For example, say I add a new project, add my first Precedence/Breeze combo to a track, then dial in reverb settings that I like, not from a preset.

I now add a new track and add another Precedence & Breeze combo. The new Breeze obviously has default settings, and I'd like to be able to go back to the first Breeze and quickly propagate all the parameters of my custom dialled in instance to the new Breeze instance. Obviously I could copy the first Breeze instance instead of instantiating a new one, but if I forget to do this it would be good to be able to go back to my first dialled in reverb and quickly propagate it across the rest of the project/group in one click.

Turn on the Load Last pref in Breeze and then whenever a new instance is loaded it will load with whatever the last preset state used was. I think this accomplishes the goal?

You could also save a temp preset, and then just reload it with Broadcast on.

But some kind of "Broadcast current state to group" command could be useful, sure. Maybe we can add it to the file menu.

We hope to add custom menus in the next month where we have more control over what we can and cant do in menus/menu-panels. Any "special feature" kind of thing like this can be relatively easy to add to menus and it's ok to do so since it won't clutter the main GUI.

ok, noted.

[Andrew Souter]

btw, Page-Up and Page-Down key-commands are intended to allow Instance Selection changes. This is VERY VERVY VERY fast and convenient. It works in all Windows hosts i've tried, but it is blocked on in hosts on OSX at the moment it seems.

Does it work for you guys?

[TheSteven]

I can't get the beta's to work on my system.
Dll file dates on both are from 2018, and Precedence throws an error "Failed to load plug-in instance manager lib. Product is not properly installed".

Is the instance manager path in the beta installing to a hard coded location instead of my specified data path?

[rz04]

I have the same issue. I've contacted support from 2CAudio and they requested install logs for the beta plugins. Hopefully we'll have a fix soon.

[aMUSEd]

Are B2 and Aether being updated too so they are compatible?

btw it would be useful if you had dates in the downloads sections next to files so I can tell at a glance which ones are new versions and which are already installed

[Andrew Souter]

I can't get the beta's to work on my system.
Dll file dates on both are from 2018, and Precedence throws an error "Failed to load plug-in instance manager lib. Product is not properly installed".

Is the instance manager path in the beta installing to a hard coded location instead of my specified data path?

Please send us an email:

https://2caudio.com/support/contact

We have a seen a few people report this, and in these cases the reason is one of the files in the installer is not being copied correctly in some cases. We are exploring. Meanwhile we can tell you how to just move it to the required folder manually. Please email.

[Andrew Souter]

Are B2 and Aether being updated too so they are compatible?

That is the goal eventually yes.

I would just specify word choice a little though: they are "compatible" already. You can get great results using Precedence on every track, and using B2 or Aether on sends. You can still use Precedence Mulit-Instnace Editing in this workflow as well.

But, to establish automatic "Precedence Link" inter-plugin communication with Aether and B2, where the reverb DSP will update exactly for each instance following position information in Precedence, assuming you use many instances direct on tracks, will require an update to both.

We do plan to add this to future versions of B2 and Aether, yes.

btw it would be useful if you had dates in the downloads sections next to files so I can tell at a glance which ones are new versions and which are already installed

Good suggestion. We'll look into it.

[xx JPRacer xx]

But, to establish automatic "Precedence Link" inter-plugin communication with Aether and B2, where the reverb DSP will update exactly for each instance following position information in Precedence, assuming you use many instances direct on tracks, will require an update to both.

We do plan to add this to future versions of B2 and Aether, yes.

Like a version 2 or still in a 1.x update?

I'm tempted by B2 but since it's been release a couple years ago I don't know if I should wait for version 2 soon (end of the year?)

[jens]

Gain mixing, and automation of gain, would remain the same most likely, although it is possible to use extreme "Gain Loss" values now in Precedence using the "X-Range" setting, and in this mode it is hypothetically possible to simply keep track faders at 0.0dB and Precedence will handle gain mixing also. We consider this an extra bonus feature. I guess most users will want to continue to use the DAW track faders for gain adjustment particularly bc gain if often automated.

You have the technology to bring the whole system even further:

- You could develop a gain plugin that would normally sit at the end of the insert-chain (but could be moved anywhere in the chain for added flexibility)

- you could make it controllable from within Precedence. Crtl+ up/down arrow (or dragging the node) would increase/decrease the gain

- and the node would visually reflect that by becoming more colour-intensive with increasing gain


I assume that would not take you very long to develop and I bet most of those owning Precendence would purchase it if you sold it for something like 15-20$

[jens]

Well, and then of course you could also add functions like:

(say)

shift-clicking a node mutes/unmutes the track

crtl+shift solos/unsolos it

alt-click phase inverts it


With the change always being reflected by the node(s) of course.

Then of course functions like solo-in-front, un-mute/un-solo all etc. could follow.

[Andrew Souter]

But, to establish automatic "Precedence Link" inter-plugin communication with Aether and B2, where the reverb DSP will update exactly for each instance following position information in Precedence, assuming you use many instances direct on tracks, will require an update to both.

We do plan to add this to future versions of B2 and Aether, yes.

Like a version 2 or still in a 1.x update?

I'm tempted by B2 but since it's been release a couple years ago I don't know if I should wait for version 2 soon (end of the year?)

like a 2.0. but there are always reasonable upgrade of course. Also you could upgrade to PS 3.5 now for a reasonable rate, and then upgrade later to the next PS iteration whenever available, and it would also be very favorable.

B2 1.x remains a leader even in 2019. It's absolute magic for huge special FX spaces etc, scoring needs, and many other things.