Illusion - new reverb from LiquidSonics

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion
ghettosynth
KVRAF
11421 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Post Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:16 pm

yellowmix wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:52 pm
ghettosynth wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:32 pm
By keeping it proprietary it keeps doors for partnerships open, e.g., slate, as opposed to letting others, particularly smaller indie devs, openly experiment. If Slate could create their own Fusion-IRs of old hardware, would they partner? I don't know, but it seems to me that it would be less likely.
An editor/creator/specification does not necessarily entail that. IIRC, Fusion-IR is proprietary and patented, so even if it were reverse-engineered, could not legally be used by anything other than Reverberate 2 (or 3 or whatever) or licensees (ostensibly the license would limit what Fusion-IRs could be used) until the patent expires. But you do bring up a good point, if random person, for example, makes a PCM90 Fusion-IR library and sells it, then it could cannibalize a partner (or LiquidSonics itself) who wants to do the same.
Ah, well, I didn't realize that Fusion-IR was patented. That changes things somewhat. That said, I do think that while community efforts to create Fusion-IRs would compete somewhat with their other products. That said, it seems that liquidsonics is doing ongoing research and maybe they feel that their next version of Reverberate might leverage some of this new work and it's not time yet.

My sense overall is that the best case is that Reverberate is on the backburner and perhaps, in part, because it didn't generate as much revenue as was hoped. I bet Seventh Heaven was much more successful and I suspect that the hope is that this new reverb will follow up on that.
Anyway, it was a publicly-announced plan and kind of a selling point and if the plans have changed, it would be nice to know one way or another.

From the Sound on Sound review:
All in all, though, at the asking price, Reverberate 2 is an absolute bargain, and will only seem more so when further banks of Fusion-IR presets become available. Matthew plans to make public the details of the file format soon — albeit with the ominous warning that “some familiarity with tools like Matlab/Octave or Python will be required” — so hopefully we’ll see other people joining in the fun too.
Yes, I agree. I'd be fine with Matlab/Octave/Python/whatever and I'm also disappointed that there hasn't been much more effort in, at the very least, providing more Fusion-IRs for customers.

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solidtrax
KVRian
578 posts since 6 Nov, 2011 from The Netherlands

Re: Illusion - new reverb from LiquidSonics

Post Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:37 am

ghettosynth wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:13 am
solidtrax wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:50 am
ghettosynth wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:05 am
This seems like it is similar to H-Reverb, no? Reading in between the marketing, which is thick with this tone for sure, they seem to be synthesizing Fusion-IRs and then using those IRs in the reverb, no?
As soon as you start to compare the sound of Illusion and H-Reverb, it's miles apart in my experience. I just finished testing Illusion for the bigger part of last hour and I think it sounds much better than H-Reverb. I would have purchased it, if it wasn't for the fact that I have 20 reverbs in my plugin arsenal already. I will continue to test it some more though, who knows.
Sure, like I said, I'll demo it, just not today, because reverbs that work like HVerb, no matter how good they sound, are just less interesting to me in general.

Of course, it goes without saying that sounding better than HVerb isn't the standard here. I'll be comparing it to the best of my algorithmic verbs.

I think that in all of this discussion of sound that there's something missing in the discussion that I value a lot, and that's interesting features and how they map to sound. I like, for example, the smoothly modulatable moving microphones in Eventide's T-Verb. It doesn't matter if you can get that sound through other means, it has a usability factor that causes me to gravitate towards it when I want to move things about in a space.

Similarly UVI's plate feature that allows you to switch materials is also useful in the same way. Now, do I have experience with titanium plate reverbs? Of course not! That's not the point, the point is that the attention to that detail maps to something that is memorable and sonically different than the other choices. So you recall the last time, for example, that you used a titanium plate it had a certain sound and you build connections in your mind between the features of the plugin and the sound.

At any rate, I'm putting the cart before the horse here, I do need to try it out. My comparison to HVerb though was about the basic underlying technology and the limitations that it presents to usability.
I was just sharing my initial experience after testing it for about an hour, I just shared my opinion with regards to sound, I'm sorry if you feel offended in any way.
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ghettosynth
KVRAF
11421 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Re: Illusion - new reverb from LiquidSonics

Post Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:44 am

solidtrax wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:37 am
ghettosynth wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:13 am
solidtrax wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:50 am
ghettosynth wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:05 am
This seems like it is similar to H-Reverb, no? Reading in between the marketing, which is thick with this tone for sure, they seem to be synthesizing Fusion-IRs and then using those IRs in the reverb, no?
As soon as you start to compare the sound of Illusion and H-Reverb, it's miles apart in my experience. I just finished testing Illusion for the bigger part of last hour and I think it sounds much better than H-Reverb. I would have purchased it, if it wasn't for the fact that I have 20 reverbs in my plugin arsenal already. I will continue to test it some more though, who knows.
Sure, like I said, I'll demo it, just not today, because reverbs that work like HVerb, no matter how good they sound, are just less interesting to me in general.

Of course, it goes without saying that sounding better than HVerb isn't the standard here. I'll be comparing it to the best of my algorithmic verbs.

I think that in all of this discussion of sound that there's something missing in the discussion that I value a lot, and that's interesting features and how they map to sound. I like, for example, the smoothly modulatable moving microphones in Eventide's T-Verb. It doesn't matter if you can get that sound through other means, it has a usability factor that causes me to gravitate towards it when I want to move things about in a space.

Similarly UVI's plate feature that allows you to switch materials is also useful in the same way. Now, do I have experience with titanium plate reverbs? Of course not! That's not the point, the point is that the attention to that detail maps to something that is memorable and sonically different than the other choices. So you recall the last time, for example, that you used a titanium plate it had a certain sound and you build connections in your mind between the features of the plugin and the sound.

At any rate, I'm putting the cart before the horse here, I do need to try it out. My comparison to HVerb though was about the basic underlying technology and the limitations that it presents to usability.
I was just sharing my initial experience after testing it for about an hour, I just shared my opinion with regards to sound, I'm sorry if you feel offended in any way.
Offended?

You responded and somewhat missed my point about HVerb. I wasn't comparing the sound at all, simply the way that it works in that it generates IRs on the fly. I just added to that clarification with some additional points about what makes a plugin interesting to me.

In fact, I don't like HVerb at all with respect to sound so I'm not surprised that this does better, I don't think that's much of a challenge TBH.

I'll evaluate it later. I did't like Seventh Heaven enough to spring for the cash, in fact, I preferred the sterility of the Bricasti IRs in Reverberate. I know that's blasphemy to some, but this is just a taste thing, to each his own.

acousticglue
KVRist
490 posts since 27 May, 2008

Re: Illusion - new reverb from LiquidSonics

Post Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:23 am

Every dev can ask what they want $$wise. Some countries standard higher or lower. I get it. But the bottom line is How newly inventive is it, what is cost difference to closest comparable VST? I have way too many plugins. I buy then later have little use for some. I can't take that hit later on higher priced plugins. Especially with no license resale.

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dandezebra
KVRian
945 posts since 21 Dec, 2013 from USA

Re: Illusion - new reverb from LiquidSonics

Post Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:47 pm

The lack of more Fusion-IRs for Reverberate 2 is certainly... disappointing. The prospect influenced my original purchase as well.

pleasewinner
KVRer
21 posts since 31 Oct, 2013

Re: Illusion - new reverb from LiquidSonics

Post Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:26 pm

Yeah, I have to agree. When I purchased Reverberate 2 I was expecting more Fusion-IRs to become available, because it was stated repeatedly that they would be.
In fact, I just went back and read the New Product thread on Gearsl*tz. On the first page, it states that "I'll be making the file format public but it will require a bit of a nerd to use it so I'll probably work with a few keen individuals first before taking it to the wider audience."
Then, we got to "It will grow with time."
Then, "The Fusion-IRs are currently only first party, though that will change."
Which lead to, "Other Fusion-IRs certainly are on the roadmap but I don't have plans to share at this moment."
And then hope appears, "Yes there will be additional Fusion-IR packs added for Reverberate 2, I'm not sure what or when yet so probably I'll avoid speculating on the type or devices, but it will happen. I'm working on some more advanced engineering tools right now to make this an easier job as it is a bit of a challenge to produce good ones! ".
Then, crickets...
Fantastic plugin, but when I bought Seventh Heaven I basically replaced the best part of Reverberate 2(the M7 FIRs). So I guess that makes me the problem, haha. Anyway, gonna pass on Illusion. As little Bush stated so eloquently, "There's an old saying in Tennessee I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee that says, fool me once, shame on -- shame on you. Fool me -- you can't get fooled again."

woggle
KVRAF
2347 posts since 24 Nov, 2012

Re: Illusion - new reverb from LiquidSonics

Post Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:05 pm

pleasewinner wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:26 pm
As little Bush stated so eloquently, "There's an old saying in Tennessee I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee that says, fool me once, shame on -- shame on you. Fool me -- you can't get fooled again."
Bush fully embraced the wisdom of "What you don't know only makes you stronger"

acousticglue
KVRist
490 posts since 27 May, 2008

Re: Illusion - new reverb from LiquidSonics

Post Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:13 am

And like I said, I really do like Reverberate. Great plugin really just needs more attention and better descriptions on layout. Better save of presets. I have IRs loaded but not easy create new palette of presets below.

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plexuss
KVRAF
2573 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Re: Illusion - new reverb from LiquidSonics

Post Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:25 am

It is wise to make purchase decisions on what is actually real and available now and ignore anything claimed to be implement for the future. this applies especially to software and real estate. :phones:

Neon Breath
KVRAF
3098 posts since 15 Sep, 2010

Re: Illusion - new reverb from LiquidSonics

Post Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:32 am

plexuss wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:25 am
...and ignore anything claimed to be implement for the future.
This is so true. I've been trapped few times by 'Yes we will add this and that in our next update'' from some plugin developers. I don't listen to plugin developer promises anymore, they often fall into abyss.
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plexuss
KVRAF
2573 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Re: Illusion - new reverb from LiquidSonics

Post Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:38 pm

Another example of a long tail Illusion, with Phonec as the source: :phones:

https://soundcloud.com/musicofplexus/ph ... le/s-pQmdQ

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ATS
KVRAF
6135 posts since 21 Dec, 2002 from MD USA

Re: Illusion - new reverb from LiquidSonics

Post Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:51 pm

Neon Breath wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:32 am
plexuss wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:25 am
...and ignore anything claimed to be implement for the future.
This is so true. I've been trapped few times by 'Yes we will add this and that in our next update'' from some plugin developers. I don't listen to plugin developer promises anymore, they often fall into abyss.
Happened to me with the Korg Collection. Sorta hurt.
my music: http://www.alexcooperusa.com
The purpose of art is washing the dust of daily life off our souls ~ Pablo Picasso

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dangayle
KVRian
806 posts since 30 Mar, 2014

Re: Illusion - new reverb from LiquidSonics

Post Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:09 pm

How long is this intro period supposed to last?

Il Padrino
KVRer
10 posts since 23 Feb, 2005

Re: Illusion - new reverb from LiquidSonics

Post Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:15 am

Until Dec 1st, if I'm correct.

simmo75
KVRian
1160 posts since 25 Mar, 2016 from Seattle

Re: Illusion - new reverb from LiquidSonics

Post Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:26 am

This is a really beautiful reverb!

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