Mix Challenge - Gossip and Discussion

How to do this, that and the other. Share, learn, teach. How did X do that? How can I sound like Y?
KVRAF
14476 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany

Post Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:32 am

camsr wrote:Ask yourself this compyfox, WHY do you use a VU meter?
I do not need to ask that myself.

I use a VU meter to measure the average signal strength of a stream.
I use a digital meter to measure the maximum signal strength of a stream.

Plain and simple.

camsr wrote:What purpose does it serve?
Analysis.
Using the best of both worlds to judge a signal strength and to use a mixing console (whatever type) to it's most efficiency.
camsr wrote:Do meter ballistics convey something that nothing else does?
In this case - yes.
Ears can be fooled, I use metering as safety mechanism and for analysis.

camsr wrote:This started as a suggestion to use LUFS to normalize the submissions for the contest. We can use VU or RMS, I have no problem with ANY gain staging OR metering, simply because I am working all digital. I am not concerned with noise or "mojo". Let's just keep it simple so we can enjoy this.
No, it started as a question "why" we should stick to the rules I set up, and then it was questioned why I went that route.

You then started to throw around LUFS as "better and ultimate solution", but in reality it is not.

LUFS or ITU-R BS.1770/EBU R-128 is a new metering suggestion/standard. It is not made for music in the first place (though I offered a possible solution with my K-System v2 concept). Barely anyone fully understands it unless they work in broadcast or took the time to actually learn it.

You then threw around a lot of stuff that didn't make sense. Which originally started at your search for a "bigger plain peak meter".



I give up. I tried to teach something here, tried to make clear why I go that route, why I set up that rule. If you question it, or people give a funk about it - then the whole learning process is in vain.

With that said... enough from me for today... I invested 3 pages by now about this topic.


If there is a new sponsor in the queue, or somebody else that wants to provide a track for future productions, please get in touch with Uncle E and/or me through PM. I'm sure to answer later that day, tomorrow latest.
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KVRAF

Topic Starter

12344 posts since 22 Nov, 2000 from Southern California

Post Thu Jun 12, 2014 7:55 am

It's a non-issue due to the nature of this music's arrangement. A future challenge may involve music that is more dense, then I imagine this may come up again.

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KVRAF
2883 posts since 26 Oct, 2007 from Kent, UK

Post Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:47 am

Compyfox wrote:I give up. I tried to teach something here, tried to make clear why I go that route, why I set up that rule. If you question it, or people give a funk about it - then the whole learning process is in vain.
Don't give up. Your posts have pushed me to do some reading - fill in the gaps in my knowledge. I now concur with pretty much everything you've said. I think it was us over complicating things (although I'm not directly speaking for camsr) - your original guidelines:

"Multi-track mixdown competition -3dBFS digital peak and -15dBFS RMS/+3 VU (reference level at -18dBFS)"

couldn't be simpler :tu:

KVRAF
2475 posts since 13 Mar, 2004

Post Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:23 pm

In the snaredrum there's a click in the tale of every hit.

Image

Imo this sounds quite strange, is it really supposed to be like this or went there something wrong with exporting the stems or so ?

KVRAF
42538 posts since 21 Dec, 2005

Post Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:38 pm

Forgive......

But there seems to be more table tennis that mixes being put up. What am I missing?

KVRAF
2475 posts since 13 Mar, 2004

Post Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:47 pm

hibidy wrote:Forgive......

But there seems to be more table tennis that mixes being put up. What am I missing?
I don't understand what you mean, sorry.
Is this replied at me to my post above yours or a general comment ?

KVRAF
42538 posts since 21 Dec, 2005

Post Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:52 pm

It's a general comment. I heard uncle e's, but there is just too much ground to cover so I don't know where all the mixes are.

KVRAF
2475 posts since 13 Mar, 2004

Post Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:04 pm

Ah ok, thanks for clarifying. I was confused.

Well, for me, I started mine, then I stumbled over this issue mentioned above and now pausing to see what others have to say about it.

edit:
But there are some more than Uncle E's in the submissions thread now.
Besides it's still a bit to go before the deadline. :)

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KVRAF
1783 posts since 9 Apr, 2011

Post Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:16 pm

It was an imperfection in the sample pack. The samples are taken from a TR707, so the machine of whoever made the pack must have had a unit that clicked.

KVRAF
7088 posts since 17 Feb, 2005

Post Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:18 pm

I thought it sounded okay so I left it in.

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

12344 posts since 22 Nov, 2000 from Southern California

Post Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:18 pm

photonic wrote:http://www.astroimages.at/musik/KVR/dou ... otonic.mp3
I love the way Photonic separated the guitar parts and end vocal. It makes me wonder how creative people might have gotten had all the vocals been separated.

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KVRAF
2566 posts since 18 Mar, 2011 from Spain

Post Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:20 pm

So is this the gossip thread?
Sorry, didn't see it till Compyfox said in the another thread. If you need, you can delete my posts in the another thread.

I will ask here again.

What about to use modulation effects and distortion?

Have a nice day :)
Image

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

12344 posts since 22 Nov, 2000 from Southern California

Post Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:25 pm

No_Use wrote:In the snaredrum there's a click in the tale of every hit.
Yeah, this is why I gated the snare. I set it so that only the initial transient triggers it, what you hear after is just the natural release of the gate. I smashed the snare and this really brought out that end garbage when I didn't have the gate on it. I also cut out a ton of low mids and almost all lows. Snare #2 is on the same track, going through the same processing.

It's cool to know that's a 707. I'll need to sample the snare from my MKS-7 (the drums are a 707) and apply the processing that I used in this mix.

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

12344 posts since 22 Nov, 2000 from Southern California

Post Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:27 pm

hibidy wrote:It's a general comment. I heard uncle e's, but there is just too much ground to cover so I don't know where all the mixes are.
We'll assemble them all into the first post when the voting begins. Any comments on my mix? It was weird for me to mix in LCR, a lot of the mixes I reference are LCR but they all have a lot more parts going on.

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

12344 posts since 22 Nov, 2000 from Southern California

Post Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:29 pm

IrionDaRonin wrote:What about to use modulation effects and distortion?
Yes, this is OK. I wanted to run the bass through a Moog filter, the only reason I didn't was I was trying to limit the number of different plugins used.

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