Need Help With Trance Project (CD Completed)

How to do this, that and the other. Share, learn, teach. How did X do that? How can I sound like Y?
User avatar
wagtunes
KVRAF
14603 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Post Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:00 am

Mushy Mushy wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:59 am
It’s half the track.
Minute 3ish to 5ish
Huh? I just listened to an 8 minute song.

User avatar
wagtunes
KVRAF
14603 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Need Help With Trance Project

Post Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:02 am

Mushy Mushy wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:59 am
It’s half the track. 3.30 to 5.20
Wait, so you're telling me that whole section is a drop? Well, it totally passed me by. Way too subtle for me. I didn't hear any big build up or anything like that.

Maybe I just don't get it.

User avatar
wagtunes
KVRAF
14603 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Need Help With Trance Project

Post Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:06 am

I just listened to another track of his where I heard no "obvious" drop. Yes, I hear sections where the music gets quieter and then builds up. But I did that with my track too and was told I had no drops.

Sounds like a double standard to me.

Mushy Mushy
KVRAF
10653 posts since 7 Sep, 2008

Re: Need Help With Trance Project

Post Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:12 am

wagtunes wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:02 am
Mushy Mushy wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:59 am
It’s half the track. 3.30 to 5.20
Wait, so you're telling me that whole section is a drop? Well, it totally passed me by. Way too subtle for me. I didn't hear any big build up or anything like that.

Maybe I just don't get it.
Yep that whole middle section is the breakdown. The kiddies would call that an epic drop because it's so protracted. Even when the kick comes back in initially it's heavily filtered so we the listener are tuned to know it's still building. This is the bit on the dancefloor where the people are swaying and/or have their hands raised in the air. At 5:22 the drop is over and the dancing resumes.
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"

User avatar
wagtunes
KVRAF
14603 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Need Help With Trance Project

Post Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:15 am

Mushy Mushy wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:12 am
wagtunes wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:02 am
Mushy Mushy wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:59 am
It’s half the track. 3.30 to 5.20
Wait, so you're telling me that whole section is a drop? Well, it totally passed me by. Way too subtle for me. I didn't hear any big build up or anything like that.

Maybe I just don't get it.
Yep that whole middle section is the breakdown. The kiddies would call that an epic drop because it's so protracted. Even when the kick comes back in initially it's heavily filtered so we the listener are tuned to know it's still building. This is the bit on the dancefloor where the people are swaying and/or have their hands raised in the air. At 5:22 the drop is over and the dancing resumes.
I don't know. To me it just sounds like a regular song. This stuff is way too subtle for me.

Anyway, I'm still listening to tracks. Eventually this stuff will sink in. Yeah, I know. I need to listen to Trance for 20 years to get it. Yada, yada, yada. I don't have 20 years. I'll be dead in 20 years so I have to do this as a crash course now.

User avatar
wagtunes
KVRAF
14603 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Need Help With Trance Project

Post Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:21 am

Okay, so let me see if I get this because I'm listening to a lot of Vocal Trance now.

1. Start off with kick. Maybe bass and some kind of ARP join in.

2. Melody then kicks in.

3. Drums stop and we hear a wash of pads followed by vocal section.

4. At the end of vocal section kick comes back in, we hear riser in background, kick does roll, sudden stop...

5. Main whatever starts back up with everything going.

Is that pretty much the formula?

AnX
KVRAF
3836 posts since 17 Nov, 2015

Re: Need Help With Trance Project

Post Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:25 am

your track isnt convincing to me... i still wouldnt call it trance, sounds very modern/edm to me and doesnt have classic build ups/breakdowns imo

personally i would lose the vocals, this style doesnt really need them

for ref tho, im not into new stuff, i was into it in the 90's, but i dont think its changed that much

User avatar
wagtunes
KVRAF
14603 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Need Help With Trance Project

Post Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:26 am

AnX wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:25 am
your track isnt convincing to me... i still wouldnt call it trance, sounds very modern/edm to me and doesnt have classic build ups/breakdowns imo

personally i would lose the vocals, this style doesnt really need them

for ref tho, im not into new stuff, i was into it in the 90's, but i dont think its changed that much
Fine. You're entitled to your opinion. Other people liked it. That's all I care about. It's done.

Mushy Mushy
KVRAF
10653 posts since 7 Sep, 2008

Re: Need Help With Trance Project

Post Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:37 am

wagtunes wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:21 am
Okay, so let me see if I get this because I'm listening to a lot of Vocal Trance now.

1. Start off with kick. Maybe bass and some kind of ARP join in.

2. Melody then kicks in.

3. Drums stop and we hear a wash of pads followed by vocal section.

4. At the end of vocal section kick comes back in, we hear riser in background, kick does roll, sudden stop...

5. Main whatever starts back up with everything going.

Is that pretty much the formula?
Give or take yes. This is why people say it's incredibly easy to make and tend to mock it. However as you've discovered it's harder than it appears.
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"

Mushy Mushy
KVRAF
10653 posts since 7 Sep, 2008

Re: Need Help With Trance Project

Post Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:39 am

wagtunes wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:15 am
Yeah, I know. I need to listen to Trance for 20 years to get it. Yada, yada, yada. I don't have 20 years. I'll be dead in 20 years so I have to do this as a crash course now.
Not at all. Took me two seconds to find the break. Clicked randomly until I didn't hear drums, clicked backward to see when they dropped out and forward to see when they came back in. You can do that.
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"

User avatar
wagtunes
KVRAF
14603 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Need Help With Trance Project

Post Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:54 am

Mushy Mushy wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:37 am
wagtunes wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:21 am
Okay, so let me see if I get this because I'm listening to a lot of Vocal Trance now.

1. Start off with kick. Maybe bass and some kind of ARP join in.

2. Melody then kicks in.

3. Drums stop and we hear a wash of pads followed by vocal section.

4. At the end of vocal section kick comes back in, we hear riser in background, kick does roll, sudden stop...

5. Main whatever starts back up with everything going.

Is that pretty much the formula?
Give or take yes. This is why people say it's incredibly easy to make and tend to mock it. However as you've discovered it's harder than it appears.
It's also very hard to do when you're trying to be different, which is obviously what I was trying to be.

Mushy Mushy
KVRAF
10653 posts since 7 Sep, 2008

Re: Need Help With Trance Project

Post Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:58 am

wagtunes wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:54 am
Mushy Mushy wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:37 am
wagtunes wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:21 am
Okay, so let me see if I get this because I'm listening to a lot of Vocal Trance now.

1. Start off with kick. Maybe bass and some kind of ARP join in.

2. Melody then kicks in.

3. Drums stop and we hear a wash of pads followed by vocal section.

4. At the end of vocal section kick comes back in, we hear riser in background, kick does roll, sudden stop...

5. Main whatever starts back up with everything going.

Is that pretty much the formula?
Give or take yes. This is why people say it's incredibly easy to make and tend to mock it. However as you've discovered it's harder than it appears.
It's also very hard to do when you're trying to be different, which is obviously what I was trying to be.
Yes that is understood, however that view could also be flipped. If you're trying to be different then the aforementioned "structure" isn't relevant.
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"

User avatar
wagtunes
KVRAF
14603 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Need Help With Trance Project

Post Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:07 am

Mushy Mushy wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:58 am
wagtunes wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:54 am
Mushy Mushy wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:37 am
wagtunes wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:21 am
Okay, so let me see if I get this because I'm listening to a lot of Vocal Trance now.

1. Start off with kick. Maybe bass and some kind of ARP join in.

2. Melody then kicks in.

3. Drums stop and we hear a wash of pads followed by vocal section.

4. At the end of vocal section kick comes back in, we hear riser in background, kick does roll, sudden stop...

5. Main whatever starts back up with everything going.

Is that pretty much the formula?
Give or take yes. This is why people say it's incredibly easy to make and tend to mock it. However as you've discovered it's harder than it appears.
It's also very hard to do when you're trying to be different, which is obviously what I was trying to be.
Yes that is understood, however that view could also be flipped. If you're trying to be different then the aforementioned "structure" isn't relevant.
Except then people tell you you're not doing Trance and that you failed. Because that's pretty much what people are saying. "Ah look at the idiot. He can't even do Trance right."

The next track will be so cookie cutter people will gag on it.

User avatar
wagtunes
KVRAF
14603 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Need Help With Trance Project

Post Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:11 am

Mushy Mushy wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:58 am
wagtunes wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:54 am
Mushy Mushy wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:37 am
wagtunes wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:21 am
Okay, so let me see if I get this because I'm listening to a lot of Vocal Trance now.

1. Start off with kick. Maybe bass and some kind of ARP join in.

2. Melody then kicks in.

3. Drums stop and we hear a wash of pads followed by vocal section.

4. At the end of vocal section kick comes back in, we hear riser in background, kick does roll, sudden stop...

5. Main whatever starts back up with everything going.

Is that pretty much the formula?
Give or take yes. This is why people say it's incredibly easy to make and tend to mock it. However as you've discovered it's harder than it appears.
It's also very hard to do when you're trying to be different, which is obviously what I was trying to be.
Yes that is understood, however that view could also be flipped. If you're trying to be different then the aforementioned "structure" isn't relevant.
Could we dissect a track right here? Real time? I'll post it and go through it analyze it and you tell me where I am right and wrong. Of course I may be unsure of certain things so I'll ask.

Sound good?

Mushy Mushy
KVRAF
10653 posts since 7 Sep, 2008

Re: Need Help With Trance Project

Post Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:14 am

wagtunes wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:11 am
Could we dissect a track right here? Real time? I'll post it and go through it analyze it and you tell me where I am right and wrong. Of course I may be unsure of certain things so I'll ask.

Sound good?
Sure, post it up. I am headed out in a little bit though.
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"

Return to “Production Techniques”