Cakewalk Gets zplane élastique in build 2018.09 Build 25

[JoseC.]

I see the problem. It is working fine, you just need to define the clip duration right for it to loop correctly. What you are dragging to the Browser now is a seven eigth note clip. Just select the clip in the track for the total one bar duration, and hit CTL-L, to make it a groove clip, then drag it to the Browser. In the description at the bottom of the Browser when you select it, it will show now that it is 4 beat long, and that it is now loopable.

Yes, it works that way.
But what to do if I have many 3rd party midi loops? Is there the way to "groove clip" them in batch?

I have plenty of third party commercial midi loops, from Groove Monkey, Newtronic, and others, and they loop fine. Bear in mind that the same as with audio, it is not the same a loop than a clip, you must define the duration somehow. When you import a raw audio file into a modern sequencer, it will usually take a guess about its duration, but many times you will need to manually adjust the tempo, or trim the file until it loops well, or warp it, or whatever procedure your sequencer requires.

This is the same with midi clips, as you saw with your example above. If you had just imported your file in a track, it would have imported fine. If you had made the last note a quarter note, its duration would have been a whole bar, and it would have looped right over a bar in the Browser, without need of making it a groove clip, but what if you wanted those four notes to repeat every four bars? You would need to define three bars of silence at the end of your loop.

What I mean is that this is not something that you can do in batch, the same as you cannot make loops in batch from raw audio files from a sample library. Anyway, third party midi loops should loop fine in the browser, but Standard Midi Files intended to be dragged and dropped into a track should be hit and miss. Just look at the info at the bottom of the Browser. If info about the number of beats appears, and it looks correct, it should loop fine in the Browser.

[ruslan.st]

Yes, it works that way.
But what to do if I have many 3rd party midi loops? Is there the way to "groove clip" them in batch?

READ THE MANUAL !

Can you tell me which page, section?
Never thought playing loops in browser is such a rocket science that requires reading manuals. I checked few other DAWs, midi loops play fine directly in their media browsers. Even my basic four-hit one bar example is ok. Probably those DAWs do simple guess that the last bar should be extended till the end even if there are no more midi events left.

[digitalboytn]

Start at page one and just keep going

Seriously...use the help section and type in the request...

It is a very comprehensive manual that covers an awful lot of ground...

It makes a good bedtime story

[ruslan.st]

Start at page one and just keep going

Started and keep going.
Have red section "Tutorial 2 - Using the Browser" then "Working with loops and Groove Clips" then "MIDI Groove Clips" and few related subtopics. I understand that Cakewalks uses some "Groove clip" concept and using Ctrl+L there is possible to convert clip on a track into "Groove clip". But still there is no answer is it possible to play generic midi loops directly from browser (and get them loop correctly) without additional operation?

[dellboy]

Start at page one and just keep going

Started and keep going.
Have red section "Tutorial 2 - Using the Browser" then "Working with loops and Groove Clips" then "MIDI Groove Clips" and few related subtopics. I understand that Cakewalks uses some "Groove clip" concept and using Ctrl+L there is possible to convert clip on a track into "Groove clip". But still there is no answer is it possible to play generic midi loops directly from browser (and get them loop correctly) without additional operation?

How do you get the clip to play drums in the browser ? all I get is a piano sound.

Anyway, I can confirm that the clip does not loop properly in the browser. The strange thing is that when I drag the same unmodified clip (not groove clipped) into the matrix view,it loops perfectly as a drum clip.

If you are into loops,why not build your song in the matrix view by dragging all your unmodified clips into it ?

[ruslan.st]

Sound depends on virtual instrument you use and midi channel of midi clip. I use Cakewalks Studio Instruments Drums, which does not contain any other sounds, so probably midi channel isn't important for it. If you use some General Midi instrument you may need to set midi channel to 10.

Yes, I also noticed that in matrix it can loop midi files properly without any additional "groove clipping" operations. But that requires additional dragging to matrix, then removing if loop gets unneeded anymore. And since it is able to identify loop boundaries in matrix, seems strange this doesn't work in browser.

[JoseC.]

Yes, it works that way.
But what to do if I have many 3rd party midi loops? Is there the way to "groove clip" them in batch?

READ THE MANUAL !

Can you tell me which page, section?
Never thought playing loops in browser is such a rocket science that requires reading manuals. I checked few other DAWs, midi loops play fine directly in their media browsers. Even my basic four-hit one bar example is ok. Probably those DAWs do simple guess that the last bar should be extended till the end even if there are no more midi events left.

What end? Your clip is a perfect 7/8 loop.

[ruslan.st]

What end? Your clip is a perfect 7/8 loop.

But project meter is 4/4 and most DAWs align it to 4/4 loop and this is what is required in most cases.

[JoseC.]

Sound depends on virtual instrument you use and midi channel of midi clip. I use Cakewalks Studio Instruments Drums, which does not contain any other sounds, so probably midi channel isn't important for it. If you use some General Midi instrument you may need to set midi channel to 10.

Yes, I also noticed that in matrix it can loop midi files properly without any additional "groove clipping" operations. But that requires additional dragging to matrix, then removing if loop gets unneeded anymore. And since it is able to identify loop boundaries in matrix, seems strange this doesn't work in browser.

I can audition 3rd party commercial midi loops in the Browser, I have done that for years. I still don't quite get what the problem is.

Anyway, once you drag the clip into the matrix, it triggers according to the Matrix parameters.

The sound is set by the synth that you select to audition loops in the Browser options. You can either select any synth assigned to a track, or you can load a track in the Synth Rack. This is much better than Live's browser, that makes you audition midi loops with a fixed pianish sound. CbB lets you use the actual synth that you want to use.

[ruslan.st]

I can audition 3rd party commercial midi loops in the Browser, I have done that for years. I still don't quite get what the problem is.

The problem is that next iteration of generic loop starts too early, does not align to bar start and unsynchronize from the project playback. As I understood loops in Browser work only if they are specifically prepared for Cakewalk in "clip groove" form.

[JoseC.]

I can audition 3rd party commercial midi loops in the Browser, I have done that for years. I still don't quite get what the problem is.

The problem is that next iteration of generic loop starts too early, does not align to bar start and unsynchronize from the project playback. As I understood loops in Browser work only if they are specifically prepared for Cakewalk in "clip groove" form.

I have hundreds of 3rd party midi loops that all work fine, that is why I feel intrigued by your problem. There is no special format for Sonar or Cakewalk. Maybe if you could provide a link to download a couple of them I could test them.

Anyway, you seem to be misunderstanding the way Cakewalk creates midi clips. In other DAWs, like Ableton Live, or Reaper, you must create what is called a "clip" (in Live), or an "item" in Reaper, BEFORE you can enter any midi notes. That item, or clip, has certain properties, including its length, that is independent of the notes within. You can have a 16 bar clip with just some notes in beats 3 and 4 of bar 16, for example. That is what you export.

In Cakewalk you do not need to create the clip before, you just enter notes in a midi track without worrying about the length of what you play. So, if you want to export a clip, you need to define its boundaries before exporting it, so you select the region that you want to loop, and hit CTL-L to define it as a groove clip before exporting it. Otherwise you will export just those notes, starting with the first and ending at the end of the last one.

Personally I prefer not having to create a clip beforehand, and having to care about its length unless I want to export it or loop it, but it is what I am used to.

[ruslan.st]

And I have hundreds of 3rd party midi loops which do not play fine. For example: Native Instruments Studio/Abbey Road Drummer loops, Groove Monkee General Midi mapping loops. Can make another video with examples from these packages if needed.
I understand that clip handling can be different in DAWs on track. But I want to preview simple midi files in browser correctly before they get into track.

[jinotsuh]

SONAR/CbB
(An Ode, to old code)

Inefficient, and outdated
From a century past
as previously stated

Programmed long ago
In a bygone era
Can it really be, any clearer.

"There are a lot of remnants inside the SONAR/CbB that come from the 90s when computing power couldn't handle massive precision. Many areas still limit the user to whole numbers only (transpose, etc.). There is really no reason why cents (or even decimals of cents) cannot be used when transposing... the "semi-tone" was there 20+ years ago."

http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3790324

[THE INTRANCER]

SONAR/CbB
(An Ode, to old code)

Inefficient, and outdated
From a century past
as previously stated

Programmed long ago
In a bygone era
Can it really be, any clearer.

"There are a lot of remnants inside the SONAR/CbB that come from the 90s when computing power couldn't handle massive precision. Many areas still limit the user to whole numbers only (transpose, etc.). There is really no reason why cents (or even decimals of cents) cannot be used when transposing... the "semi-tone" was there 20+ years ago."

http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3790324

Whilst I agree with what you've posted and what has been removed as this will probably will be too, I think you're probably flogging deaf horses, here.... You would have to pry CbB from their cold dead hooves... to have them take listen to you...I mean you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink...Showing them something like a stable, secure and safe place to stay may be a better approach... cause all they will do otherwise is.. say neigh neigh neigh, and trot off to do their thing... that's my equestrian view point anyway...

[ruslan.st]

Ok, here is video with example from 3rd party Groove Monkee loops: Rock Essentials 1 pack, General Midi mapping.
I play loop along with metronome. It plays well until next iteration, then repetition starts too early and it gets out of sync from metronome.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPwTvht ... e=youtu.be