Why you left Bitwig?

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KVRist
76 posts since 7 May, 2012

Post Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:09 pm

They made the grid , modular , etc .... But a basic function like midi time stretch no. I left after version 3 . All other daw offer this as default ...

KVRAF
8262 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:42 pm

It’s that ‘all other DAWS’ thing again, Bitwig isn’t the same as all other DAWS, that’s why some of us like it, it has originality. I can never understand why someone sells a DAW for not having a function they say they need when it never had that function in the first place...do people not demo?! Is Midi Time Stretch a basic function? I have been composing and using multiple DAWs for over 20 years and I have never used it (or missed It).
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KVRian
508 posts since 26 Nov, 2009

Post Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:11 am

SLiC wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:42 pm
Is Midi Time Stretch a basic function? I have been composing and using multiple DAWs for over 20 years and I have never used it (or missed It).
yes, it is... it is very useful when you record without a metronome and you drift in tempo (or you can't play in time even with a metronome... :hihi: ). Quantizing functions will usually destroy your performance, but with time stretch it is easy to fix it, if you have to use it along something like electronic drum loop (for let's say edm ).

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KVRAF
10754 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:12 am

johnwoo wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:09 pm
They made the grid , modular , etc .... But a basic function like midi time stretch no. I left after version 3 . All other daw offer this as default ...
The question is what percentage of time that you spend producing music is actually dedicated to stretching MIDI clips? And if the time you're losing not having this feature natively in Bitwig isn't more than made up by other things it's faster at than 'other DAWs'?

So for instance Bitwig doesn't have 'default DAW features' like audio comping, musical notation, VCA faders, adding same plugin to multiple channels, audio pitch-editor (like VariFlex in Cubase), etc. ...but I personally never needed any of them! For my music and my workflow, I need to be able to quickly create complex, multi-layered instrument & FX chains that constantly shift & move, often in a random fashion and Bitwig's containers, splitters and modulation system is far easier, more flexible & efficient than anything other DAWs offer, not to mention most DAWs don't offer those features at all. For me those are 'default DAW features'.

In the end choosing of a DAW comes down to optimising workflow - find one that does the things you do the most of best and irritates you the least for everything else ;)
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KVRist
76 posts since 7 May, 2012

Post Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:21 am

Midi time stretch was just an example . Bitwig still has to grow . In Reaper I can stack vsti and fx in one channel , Ableton has capture ... They make Grid (Greed :hihi: ) to sell (we just need another modular thing ) . Do you know , for how many years users ask for this , again just one example , midi time stretch ? From bitwig version one. And this isn't the only request . Like all company they care just to sell and not about consumers ... For now I stick with Ableton and Reaper , they have Rewire too ... Another thing ask for years already for Bitwig ... Maybe it will come in 2999 :tu: ...

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Banned
1796 posts since 8 Sep, 2019 from Calenberg

Post Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:28 am

antic604 wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:05 pm
Calenberger wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:42 am
BITWIG does not support AU plugins :dog:
Logic Pro doesn't support VST and doesn't run on Windows or Linux :dog:

What was your point, huh?! :scared:
Logic Pro does support VST...
By the way: this thread is about Bitwig, not Logic Pro...

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KVRAF
2980 posts since 13 May, 2004

Post Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:55 am

Daags wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:49 pm
when I installed Bitwig 3, and saw that it uses Java (for the GUI if I'm not mistaken) ... my gut reaction was 'uh oh'. The issues people describe with the GUI don't really surprise me. was Bitwig always using JavaFX for the GUI ? I mean from the very beginning ? I don't recall it when it first came out, but possibly I wasn't coding in Java at that point and may have not paid too much attention to any Java signifiers during the install process.
Bitwig uses a C library for the UI, which had several issues on Macos. These improved a lot with Bitwig 3.0 and now 3.1.
The Audio Engine is written in C++.
Java is used as the "glue code" between the different parts of the software.

KVRian
1470 posts since 23 Feb, 2017

Post Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:21 am

SLiC wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:42 pm
It’s that ‘all other DAWS’ thing again, Bitwig isn’t the same as all other DAWS, that’s why some of us like it, it has originality.
:hihi:

The lack of midi time stretch is a feature, not an oversight!!!
Signatures are so early 2000s.

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KVRAF
10754 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:40 am

Calenberger wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:28 am
Logic Pro does support VST...
By the way: this thread is about Bitwig, not Logic Pro...
Sorry, I wasn't aware there's VST support in Logic

Regarding AU, are there a lot plugins available ONLY in this format?

I suppose Bitwig team (around 10-12 people in total) needed to choose their battles in terms of what they support and they chose Linux, which apparently was a good choice since 1/4 of the user base is in that OS.
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KVRAF
6376 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Post Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:47 am

roman.i wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:55 am
I tried Bitwig demo and it's impressive by all means, but after checking the stats on the internet I see that it's popularity is not growing over time and even has a negative trend.
It means people "come and go", why they don't continue to use this DAW?
So, the question for those who used Bitwig for a while, what was the reason you changed the DAW?
The trend of Ableton Live and Protools is worse, Studio One and Reaper stays more or less the same and Logic is comparable to Bitwig. There is no comparison between several DAWs. The only thing you read out of that, is maybe how fast users learn. The need for googling a DAW is if you have problems to solve. It does not tell anything about market share or importance or how much people like their tools. Absolute nothing - zero - niente...
If a trend is going down, you could assume that there are fewer problems with the software and thus less reason to change...!

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KVRAF
10754 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:49 am

johnwoo wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:21 am
Midi time stretch was just an example . Bitwig still has to grow . In Reaper I can stack vsti and fx in one channel , Ableton has capture ... They make Grid (Greed :hihi: ) to sell (we just need another modular thing ) . Do you know , for how many years users ask for this , again just one example , midi time stretch ? From bitwig version one. And this isn't the only request . Like all company they care just to sell and not about consumers ... For now I stick with Ableton and Reaper , they have Rewire too ... Another thing ask for years already for Bitwig ... Maybe it will come in 2999 :tu: ...
1. The Grid - I don't know how much you used it, but what sets it apart from Reaktor, VCV or Voltage is workflow and integration into the DAW. It's a worthy addition, but obviously not for everyone. I often tend to switch to Grid to quickly do something that'd take more time with regular devices, which would never be the case with above mentioned modular environments. It's just another tool.

2. Stacking VSTi/fx - sure, many DAWs can do that (Reaper, Reason, S1, Live) but - again - it's about workflow and ease of use. Coming back to my main point - if creating complex, layered & split-heavy chains is what you do the most of, then probably Bitwig is the fastest.

3. Rewire support - I'm not sure how relevant this is anymore, since even Reason Studios says openly it's being retired during 2020 (last segment above the website footer: https://developer.reasonstudios.com/dis ... r-products)
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KVRAF
3437 posts since 3 Oct, 2013 from Budapest

Post Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:52 am

^^^
Compatibility
...
Support for Audio Units effect, instrument, and MIDI plug-ins
...
https://www.apple.com/logic-pro/specs/
"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat

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KVRAF
10754 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:59 am

xbitz wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:52 am
^^^
Compatibility
...
Support for Audio Units effect, instrument, and MIDI plug-ins
...
https://www.apple.com/logic-pro/specs/
What you're saying? That it doesn't support VST after all?
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KVRAF
1524 posts since 6 Nov, 2012

Post Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:23 am

roman.i wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:35 pm
After spending several months learning FL Studio and $130 on the license, I don't really like it and I'm not going to use it anymore. The piano roll, the feel of the interface, and these comments on KVR "every DAW today is capable as others" made me buy it. Everything was fine until projects started to get complicated and FL Studio doesn't have any logical structure, grouping or nesting, it's like most of the time I'm spending on tying things together.
For example the new CV plugin in FL, it cannot control a synth on it's own, it needs to be inside a patcher with another plugin for midi, then I need to connect it to a separate mixer channel, but since FL doesn't have mono outputs, it needs to be panned on left or right channel, then on a separate mixer channel I need to receive an incoming audio. Of course because it's FL Studio and every part "lives" on it's own this whole setup cannot be saved as preset.
In Bitwig I just drop a HW CV plugin on a track and it's done. This is just a small example how painful the workflow in FL Studio is.
I also tried to use Ableton Lite and Studio One Artist, but didn't like them. I like how Cubase looks and features it got and I want to try it, but it requires a Steinberg USB to install the trial version (!).
So regarding Bitwig, I'm feeling suspicious because it's really good but not "exploding" in popularity, and I don't want another DAW that will need to be replaced after few months, that's why I opened this topic.
Yo open new "Why you left FL?" thread with that comment.

KVRAF
2253 posts since 9 Mar, 2009 from Copenhagen, Denmark

Post Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:35 am

MPE control is the main selling point for Bitwig imo.
I just have the 8-track version because I'm a Seaboard Rise owner and MPE isn't supported on FL Studio (my main DAW for 10+ years). I bounce Seaboard to wav and put them in FL for further production.
Besides MPE, I don't like Bitwig - so many cases of "Why did they do it this way?" - and I absolutely hate the piano roll/grid that many seem to love. So fiddly, and sometimes it simply doesn't do what you ask it to. Why does simple copy pasting have to be such a hassle? Or maybe I'm doing something wrong?
FL has become 2nd nature for me through all those years but Bitwig just isn't intuitive (I never liked Ableton Live either btw). I could never see myself migrating to a full version of Bitwig.

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