Disadvantages of DAWs in comparison to others

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
KVRAF
1918 posts since 8 Jun, 2018

Post Tue May 18, 2021 5:20 am

chk071 wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 5:04 am
Good for you that that gives you peace. :) It would give me the unrest of knowing that I wouldn't use 6 of those expensive 7 DAW's at all...
:wink: :) :D :D :evil: :evil: :scared: :help:

(it developed quite naturally, strangely, it works for me, for others will certainly be overkill, or not.., it depends, of course. you need only one DAW, of course. but now i need them all...)
take me as apple as reed-son as flesh-icon, immediately
shits the wise man. hero and blind. take me as
stick as tongue as dog... Music & Soundscraping

KVRAF
13019 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Post Tue May 18, 2021 5:27 am

dupont wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 3:30 am
pixel85 wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 11:17 pm

You can do electronic music with any DAW. Most of electronic music genres doesn't require complex effects chains and tons of layers (popular mistake of newbies) which are easier to do in Ableton than Cubase. Or to use systems like in Bitwig. Of course there are artists who are making strange glitch ambient drone speedcore genres and for them these features are very useful. But most electronic music is not much different than rock or pop: drums, bass, lead, pads in AB or ABAC arrangement. Then there're those who use a lot of hardware and DAW serves only as arranger + mixer.
correct, most of the time, simpler is better.
I saw a video on youtube where a Ableton certified trainer explaining how to make complex track routing to apply several effects to an audio item. What a mess.
Why make it easy when you can make it difficult.
Ableton strenght is the marketing which most of videos with sexy girls !
I don't know the details, but, I suspect the goal was to show you how to create complex track routings when necessary. What you find easy or difficult may not be the same for other people. I don't find routing in Ableton to be tedious or difficult and I find that it's often quite useful in establishing a framework for quasi-live performance. This is a common way of working for some electronic producers. I have often seen that some users prefer repeating a task over setting up a framework to support that task. For example, just copying and editing clips onto the arranger or in sequence in the launcher rather than setting up follow actions.

There's quite a bit of misunderstanding in this thread about how and why Live evolved the way that it has. Hint, the first clue is in the name of the product. It's not a very good Cubase, if that's what you want, then use that.

KVRAF
13019 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Post Tue May 18, 2021 5:27 am

WasteLand wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 5:20 am
chk071 wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 5:04 am
Good for you that that gives you peace. :) It would give me the unrest of knowing that I wouldn't use 6 of those expensive 7 DAW's at all...
:wink: :) :D :D :evil: :evil: :scared: :help:

(it developed quite naturally, strangely, it works for me, for others will certainly be overkill, or not.., it depends, of course. you need only one DAW, of course. but now i need them all...)
I couldn't do seven, but I can't just use one anymore either. It depends on how I want to work for a particular kind of track.

KVRAF
1918 posts since 8 Jun, 2018

Post Tue May 18, 2021 7:41 am

ghettosynth wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 5:27 am
WasteLand wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 5:20 am
chk071 wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 5:04 am
Good for you that that gives you peace. :) It would give me the unrest of knowing that I wouldn't use 6 of those expensive 7 DAW's at all...
:wink: :) :D :D :evil: :evil: :scared: :help:

(it developed quite naturally, strangely, it works for me, for others will certainly be overkill, or not.., it depends, of course. you need only one DAW, of course. but now i need them all...)
I couldn't do seven, but I can't just use one anymore either. It depends on how I want to work for a particular kind of track.
the number of DAW's, of course, only says something about my workflow, how i work.
and of course there are times that a DAW isn't used, for some time. 1 in particular, harrisson mixbus 6, only use it for special reasons.
but mainly all are used, sometimes even i go from DAW to DAW, or most of the times.. do something in bitwig, record it, go to ableton, or... whatever, there is logic, but not one i can explain hear, clear.

but also work for a track exclusive in one DAW.

i start with sounds, from scratch. it depends, what i need, which program or DAW i use. i have also standalone programs to mangle sounds...

me like it. all-in-one would be nice, but this, for me, has advantages, you have to concentrate, in a specific way, that works for me. and it leads to different results. and a lot of projects, experiments..

o well. not interesting, i hope what i make is interesting, in several ways. the way to achieve something, can be done, with a few hardware units, or programs, or plugins. or with many stuff, a lot of steps. self-evident.

i never could have predicted this, how i work now. although, it suits me so well.. but you must discover it yourself. it is never that predictable, only after some time, you have the setup, that gives everything you need, and that setup can be... as already said...

too many words; for what you say in one sentence; "It depends on how I want to work for a particular kind of track.", that summarizes it.
take me as apple as reed-son as flesh-icon, immediately
shits the wise man. hero and blind. take me as
stick as tongue as dog... Music & Soundscraping

KVRer
20 posts since 13 Dec, 2017

Post Tue May 18, 2021 7:45 am

Cubase has a 16 insert limit and a 256 group channel limit.

KVRist
72 posts since 24 Jan, 2015

Post Tue May 18, 2021 7:50 am

Think I'd stick with FL Studio and Reason (once I can afford them) and the free ones like Waveform and Cakewalk. And of course the freeware oldschool types.

KVRAF
28836 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Wed May 19, 2021 2:54 am

DollyNipples wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 7:50 am
Think I'd stick with FL Studio and Reason (once I can afford them)
Reason is pretty affordable ATM. 279 € for a new purchase, and 209 € when you upgrade from Reason Lite or Intro. PLUS you get a grace period upgrade to Reason 12 if you bought after the 1st of May.
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

KVRist
72 posts since 24 Jan, 2015

Post Wed May 19, 2021 5:56 pm

chk071 wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 2:54 am
DollyNipples wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 7:50 am
Think I'd stick with FL Studio and Reason (once I can afford them)
Reason is pretty affordable ATM. 279 € for a new purchase, and 209 € when you upgrade from Reason Lite or Intro. PLUS you get a grace period upgrade to Reason 12 if you bought after the 1st of May.
Awesome! I kinda like the charm of those machines that you can connect in several different ways. Just gotta learn how to make some good sounds though XD

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KVRian
981 posts since 25 Sep, 2014 from Specific Northwest

Post Fri May 21, 2021 3:11 pm

Here's my two smallest currency units. Please note that generally, these are features that I just don't care for rather where someone else may love them.

Except Cubase. I've installed it, both demos and lite versions several times over the years. I can go no longer than five minutes using it before it blows up on me. Every time! Worst DAW I've never used!

DP: It's so entrenched in the rapidly fading paradigm of an old studio with massive console, patch bays and tape machines, I fear that their targeted user base is going to die off here soon. It's not a bad way of doing things, but it isn't for me. I can see why it's a fave amongst those who do video scoring, orchestral scoring, run lots of hardware, etc. I do love their stock plugins, though, which make it far worth the little extra CPU it may use over other DAWs.

Logic: It was my first, so I still own about 5 different versions of it. Of the current version, the GUIs on the original plugins are still butt ugly and confusing as all get out. AU-only support is beyond annoying. I was thrilled to see EXS24 get a new skin and I with the others would too. Those icons have to go, though. Ugh.

Reaper: I spent my month demoing v5 and most of time was spent configuring it. When I finally got it just right, I discovered that the windows would slowly squirm around as I jumped between them and I had to continually move them back to where they belonged. I also didn't get on with the effect chain being run out of a separate window. I'd rather just open the plugin I want with a single click rather than the minimum of two required. I haven't bothered with v6 at all because I don't want to blow another month of my life testing it out. Programming is one of my other day jobs, so when I open my DAW, I want to design some sounds and make music.

Live: the GUI is too tiny and fussy fiddly for me, I dislike clip launching, and there's some things under the hood that they do which really burn my cookies! Best ignore everything I say about Live.

Bitwig: Pretty much Live Jr. in my view. The new Grid looks to be cool too, although they're late to the party!

FL Studio: I originally played with it a zillion years ago, back when it was still a cereal. It was a blast to use, but having demoted the latest version, I can't figure out what happened. It's like Frankenstein's monster in digital form. It makes utterly no sense to me anymore. I do love all the included plugins, though.

Studio One: I tested it out with v2 or so, and while I enjoyed the workflow, it was still underbaked. I think with v5, it's going to be my backup DAW, depending on what happens in the next few months. I may even be able to get by with the $99 version, but I'm still comparing features before I bust out the demo to see how well we get on.

Finally, my DAW of choice: MuLab. It has everything I need and not a lot of stuff that I don't. Very streamlined and I enjoy tinkering under the hood with Mux (like Bitwig's Grid) to create my own effects and sounds. However, v8 is VST2-only. Steinberg has put several stakes into the heart of VST2 and I fear if they drag it out into the sunlight, it will finally die. I'm waiting to see if v9 will include either VST3 or AU support. He's been busy adding clip launching (yawn! :lol:). Unfortunately, due to horrible diseases and such, dev on v9 has been horribly slowed.

I also need to upgrade my Mac, so it will be ARM64, which will kill off a huge number of my plugins, including those stuck at 32-bit. More waiting to see who will jump on the Mac M1 bandwagon.

KVRAF
28836 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Fri May 21, 2021 3:16 pm

Regarding MuLab: I can't cope with the comic looking GUI. Sorry, but, I really get an aversion when I see it. Not really much of an aesthetic, but, that's too much for me.
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

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KVRAF
3580 posts since 25 Jan, 2014 from The End of The World as We Knowit

Post Fri May 21, 2021 4:17 pm

chk071 wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 3:16 pm
Regarding MuLab
This is the MuLab in Compose view, with VST and Mux browsers open, and the MuSynth.

The MuLab GUI is fully customisable.

This is Dakkra's theme. You can download it here: viewtopic.php?f=79&t=548875&start=210

I find Compose view very calming and conducive to composing.
The Edit view is similarly focused, with a huge waveform editor.
In contrast, the Modular view shows you every wire.
Dakkra theme.png
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KVRAF
28836 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Fri May 21, 2021 4:32 pm

Definitely looks better. :) Not much of a fan of the knobs though.
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

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KVRAF
3580 posts since 25 Jan, 2014 from The End of The World as We Knowit

Post Fri May 21, 2021 4:57 pm

chk071 wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 4:32 pm
the knobs though.
This is the window to customize just the Knobs in the above GUI theme, with the Back layer selected and Type menu open:
Knob customising.png
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Last edited by Michael L on Sat May 22, 2021 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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KVRian
981 posts since 25 Sep, 2014 from Specific Northwest

Post Fri May 21, 2021 6:48 pm

Ha! The GUI is a bit plain, but it just gets out of my way when I work.

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KVRist
350 posts since 29 Apr, 2019

Post Sat May 22, 2021 1:21 am

Bitwig
Y U NO NORMALIZE?!
Seriously. It's really hard for me to want to work in bitwig when I can't normalize audio clips in and out of sampler to work up to down. Makes gain staging an easy task when I can have everything coming in at max and just turn the gain down to be precise.
For all it does right, that to me is hurting the most.

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