Reason 12 is here

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
KVRAF
21339 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia

Post Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:26 am

Johnny! wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:56 pm
But at least it was somewhat competitively priced
Before it was priced somewhere in the upper range of the spectrum and the new upgrade price is insane - let's say it as it is.

KVRist
158 posts since 19 Aug, 2021

Post Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:26 pm

Johnny! wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:56 pm
I guess what's really getting people off with the price uptick, is that Reason isn't really perceived as modern, up-to-date software anymore. But at least it was somewhat competitively priced, which could make up for some lacking features or bugs, but it won't be anymore either.
I bought Studio One on this forum second hand and I'm also having the three months Reason+ for 1$ test and a 90 days test for Ableton Suite.

So in the eyes of a beginner that is deciding on a DAW, the DAW part of Reason looks really sub par. It's not even close to what other DAWs can do, lacking in parts that seem like core functions in 2021 (like a functioning search for your library).

The rack part on the other hand seems like a great collection and would be a good price as well BUT you can only get the coolest synths with Reason+ or you buy them seperatly (and then the price is out of this world).

Personally I would say they should offer a rack only version that includes all the synths and effects and ditches the lackluster DAW for about the price of Reason standard. That would look like a really good deal to most people I think and be on top of the synth/effects collections.

Seems that they are rather pushing their overpriced subscription model though.

KVRAF

Topic Starter

8255 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:50 pm

flori89 wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:26 pm
Johnny! wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:56 pm
I guess what's really getting people off with the price uptick, is that Reason isn't really perceived as modern, up-to-date software anymore. But at least it was somewhat competitively priced, which could make up for some lacking features or bugs, but it won't be anymore either.
So in the eyes of a beginner that is deciding on a DAW, the DAW part of Reason looks really sub par. It's not even close to what other DAWs can do, lacking in parts that seem like core functions in 2021 (like a functioning search for your library).
Actually most of the non-mainstream (limier) DAWS are only just catching up with Reason- at the start of this year neither Live nor Bitwig had any form of Comping! Bitwig still doesn't have Midi comping, FL Studio doesn't have proper comping...Neither Live or Bitwig have any form of audio quantise or midi like editing that Reason DAW and I would consider that a Core Function in 2021...So are Bitwig FL Studio and Ableton Live 'sub par' DAWS, or just different workflow emphasis/priorities?

There are still a lot of advantages to using the rack in Reason DAW, from right click midi mapping to pattern triggering, the whole experience is actually much more integrated (as you would expect)

If I was doing advanced orchestral stuff or recording a live band I would probably use S1 with more advanced midi and audio editing and score editing, it's just the right tool for the right job- Reason is fast and fun and the entire DAW can be considered as an instrument (like the old workstations with sequencers built in), if you approach it that way its a very creative tool with less distractions!
PC + S49 MK2, Studio One, BWS, Live (+PUSH2), FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths (Summit, Hydrasynth, DM12, P8), A4 + RYTM, MPC Live, Poly Tracker, Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars, Basses, Amps and Pedals

KVRist
158 posts since 19 Aug, 2021

Post Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:59 pm

You should probably Google "Audio quantise Ableton Live" and if you really think the midi editing of Reason is superior, then I really don't know what to say. Probably is so extremly not intuitive compared to others that I simply don't see it.
Reason is fast and fun
I think we might have very different opinions of what "fun" is. The rack is fun, no question about it. But using a daw that get's in your way all the time isn't fun for me. Exploring all the options that Studio One has is personally a lot more fun then hitting limitations all the time.

Maybe they will get around providing a rack only version with a good deal. Then I'm totally up for getting it.
Last edited by flori89 on Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

KVRAF
21339 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia

Post Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:02 am

flori89 wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:26 pm

So in the eyes of a beginner that is deciding on a DAW, the DAW part of Reason looks really sub par. It's not even close to what other DAWs can do, lacking in parts that seem like core functions in 2021 (like a functioning search for your library)..
That is patently wrong! Of course it can't do what some others can, but some others can't do (or at least not as easily) what it can do. All DAWs have their individual strengths and unique features on one hand and weaknesses and shortcomings on the other. It all depends on what your personal needs are.

Reason is great for the songwriter type of bedroom-producer and especially for those who record a lot of audio. If you e.g. record a lot of (multi-miked) drum-sets though and what not, it perhaps might not be your best choice.

The one EXTREME shortcoming it has is that audio-files are always included in the project-file and there is no way to save project-versions, which means if for some Reason you want to save a different (or even several different) versions of a project, everything will need to get stored twice on your HD, which is totally absurd and insane, so that might be a total show-stopper for you. And the same of course goes if you need ARA.

But then again: what are "core functions"? That totally depends on your personal requirements. Chances are you mean things I for instance have zero need for.

KVRAF

Topic Starter

8255 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:06 am

flori89 wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:59 pm
You should probably Google "Audio quantise Ableton Live" and if you really think the midi editing of Reason is superior, then I really don't know what to say. Probably is so extremly not intuitive compared to others that I simply don't see it.
No need to Google, Check my signature, I own Live 11 suite and Push 2 (owned Live since before it even had midi!)

I didn't say midi editing was superior (other than in S1)...I said you cant edit or quantise audio 'pitch' like midi, like Melodyne - this is built in to Reason. Live (and Bitwig) only quantises 'time'- all DAWS do this AFAIK, it is 'pitch' that is important.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTCcuiPIZwo&t=94s
PC + S49 MK2, Studio One, BWS, Live (+PUSH2), FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths (Summit, Hydrasynth, DM12, P8), A4 + RYTM, MPC Live, Poly Tracker, Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars, Basses, Amps and Pedals

KVRist
158 posts since 19 Aug, 2021

Post Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:13 am

jens wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:02 am
Reason is great for the songwriter type of bedroom-producer and especially for those who record a lot of audio. If you e.g. record a lot of (multi-miked) drum-sets though and what not, it perhaps might not be your best choice.
Don't know, feels like you are picking a thing here that literally any DAW can do flawlessly. What would be the benefit here of Reason compared to any other DAWs on the market. The versions you get for free with you hardware would be enough in that case because 8-16 tracks are usually enough for a singer/songwriter situation.

Or you could go with Garageband if you own a Mac and upgrade to Logic for half the price. What benefit would paying double to get Reason give you in that situation?
But then again: what are "core functions"? That totally depends on your personal requirements. Chances are you mean things I for instance have zero need for.
A proper search for example. I'm no Reason expert, and I won't become one. But when I'm trying it out I'm hitting limitations alle the time, for the most basic stuff. Not a very pleasent experience. So now I'm only trying if I can make use of the rack plugin on it's own, with the parts that would come with reason standard.

KVRAF

Topic Starter

8255 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:26 am

I enjoyed this video if anyone missed it...the combiner really does offer some pretty cool possibilities for performance!

https://youtu.be/O4VdwslQPGc
PC + S49 MK2, Studio One, BWS, Live (+PUSH2), FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths (Summit, Hydrasynth, DM12, P8), A4 + RYTM, MPC Live, Poly Tracker, Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars, Basses, Amps and Pedals

KVRAF
21339 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia

Post Tue Sep 28, 2021 5:50 am

flori89 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:13 am
jens wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:02 am
Reason is great for the songwriter type of bedroom-producer and especially for those who record a lot of audio. If you e.g. record a lot of (multi-miked) drum-sets though and what not, it perhaps might not be your best choice.
Don't know, feels like you are picking a thing here that literally any DAW can do flawlessly. What would be the benefit here of Reason compared to any other DAWs on the market. The versions you get for free with you hardware would be enough in that case because 8-16 tracks are usually enough for a singer/songwriter situation.
Well, tbh your answer shows a clear lack of experience / knowledge (regarding Reason at the very least).

I wrote a lot about what's great (and not so great) about Reason here in this very thread and frankly put do not really feel like repeating myself here.

Or you could go with Garageband if you own a Mac and upgrade to Logic for half the price. What benefit would paying double to get Reason give you in that situation?
I am not on a Mac so neither feel I really competent in answering that question nor do I have much interest in finding this answer.
But then again: what are "core functions"? That totally depends on your personal requirements. Chances are you mean things I for instance have zero need for.

A proper search for example. I'm no Reason expert, and I won't become one. But when I'm trying it out I'm hitting limitations alle the time, for the most basic stuff. Not a very pleasent experience. So now I'm only trying if I can make use of the rack plugin on it's own, with the parts that would come with reason standard.
Tbh I am completely oblivious as to what you mean with that. If I look for a particular plugin, I type it in the browser's search field and so far this worked flawlessly. And it's the same if I look for a particular project.
But either way I wouldn't really call that core functionality, as I certainly use that functionality less than 1% of the time I spend working in Reason.

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KVRAF
2007 posts since 21 Mar, 2012 from ..from.. from.. FROM

Post Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:24 am

This was shared over at the RT forums by Arrant:

https://www.reasonstudios.com/blog/enab ... sic-making

Nice to see REX RE support and M1 support coming. That said, and I realize maybe this is a language translation barrier their CTO has, but her statement here is confusing:
The first step is taken today by releasing REX SDK 1.9 with native Apple M1 support.
That suggests it has been released to the developer public at large, which is NOT the case. :dog: *EDIT: my bad - I was thinking Rack Extension SDK with REX support - she's talking about the actual REX SDK, which apparently is available. Oops!!! :dog:
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite | Reason 12 | i7 3770 @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro| Akai MPC Live II & Akai Force | Roland System 8 | Roland TR-8 with 7x7 Expansion | Roland TB-3 | Roland MX-1 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

KVRian
772 posts since 17 Oct, 2018

Post Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:42 am

SLiC wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:06 am
flori89 wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:59 pm
You should probably Google "Audio quantise Ableton Live" and if you really think the midi editing of Reason is superior, then I really don't know what to say. Probably is so extremly not intuitive compared to others that I simply don't see it.
No need to Google, Check my signature, I own Live 11 suite and Push 2 (owned Live since before it even had midi!)

I didn't say midi editing was superior (other than in S1)...I said you cant edit or quantise audio 'pitch' like midi, like Melodyne - this is built in to Reason. Live (and Bitwig) only quantises 'time'- all DAWS do this AFAIK, it is 'pitch' that is important.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTCcuiPIZwo&t=94s
While I agree to a point I don't consider pitch editing etc to be a sequencer feature. To me it's all about the workflow. The workflow in reason's sequencer is just clunky and feels really dated. I mean feature wise Ableton and especially Bitwig's sequence editing features leave a lot to be desired but they make up for it in ease of use and workflow.

I think Reason just needs to redesign the experience a bit and make it less tedious, but then again I'd say that about a lot of things in Reason.
Studio One 5.2 // Bitwig 3.3.4 // Logic Pro X 10.6 // Ableton 11 // Reason 11 // MPC // Force // Maschine

KVRAF

Topic Starter

8255 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:48 am

apoclypse wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:42 am

While I agree to a point I don't consider pitch editing etc to be a sequencer feature. To me it's all about the workflow.
Trust me, if you play guitar and sing as badly as I do, audio pitch editing/correction is the most important workflow feature!
PC + S49 MK2, Studio One, BWS, Live (+PUSH2), FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths (Summit, Hydrasynth, DM12, P8), A4 + RYTM, MPC Live, Poly Tracker, Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars, Basses, Amps and Pedals

User avatar
KVRian
1057 posts since 30 Mar, 2008 from MN, USA

Post Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:06 am

Amazingly, the Ignition Key (or any recent cmstick) still works for Reason 12. I figured 11 was the last one that would (sorta) work.

KVRAF
21339 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia

Post Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:36 am

apoclypse wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:42 am
While I agree to a point I don't consider pitch editing etc to be a sequencer feature. To me it's all about the workflow. The workflow in reason's sequencer is just clunky and feels really dated.
I would argue that pitch- and time-correction can be a sequencer feature indeed and in Reason it is because of the way it is incorpornted. If I want to manually time-correct a bit of a recording (i.e. a quick fix on an otherwise good take) I would normally do this on the timeline directly (say in Reaper) by cutting out the snippet and moving it a tiny bit left or right (and perhaps also doing some required fading).
In Reason we have a dedicated and easy-to-use editor for it however (which is timestretching-based however) which serves to reduce clutter on the main timeline - but of course it still is a timeline feature nonetheless. And according to the same logic/paradigm (i.e. offering fast and direct tools to be able to rapidly and relatively painlessly do the bulk of the bread-and-butter stuff), Reason additionally offers a dedicated pitch-editor that is still part of the same timeline.

In other DAWs this is split apart more so that it potentially becomes a process that you might regard as being relatively independent of the timeline, but that is not the case with Reason.

And the reduced clutter aside (that not only concearns time-corrections but also comping, which also has its own editor in Reason), Reason offers other sequencer-related advantages such as its unqiue Blocks-feature.

Personally I can't see how anyone might regard Reason's sequencer "clunky" and "dated". In my opinion it is the best thing about Reason.


And still they managed to lose me as a customer now. :dog:
Last edited by jens on Wed Sep 29, 2021 6:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

KVRAF
1892 posts since 5 Oct, 2003

Post Wed Sep 29, 2021 6:32 am

Is there a user library to upload and download user created Combinators?

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