How popular/usual is the use of modes for commercial music?

[Spring Goose]

How popular/usual is the use of modes for commercial music?

I've read that modes are only occasionally used, and most commercial music use simply the regular Major and Minor scales. Is that true?

I'll explain why i am asking: it's because i think that i can't find the melodys i want using the regular minor scales. The melodys usually sound like a lullaby or something from a film soundtrack, which isn't what i want.


I don't mean "commercial" advertisement.
I mean "commercial" the albums and songs which are popular and make a lot of money and played on radio etc.

Also i read that most house music (deep house) tracks are in the regular minor scales. Is that true? My intuition is that it isn't true.

I think i'm going round in circles, trying to find the melodys that i would like. I mean i think its like trying to find the needle in the haystack. That's why i'm asking for some direction. Thanks.

Thecontrolcentre has suggest that i should learn/practice an instrument, but i'm not able to do that much because i have fibromyalgia and pain in the arms/hands. I can learn/practice somewhat, but i'd like to know what i should learn/practice, because i have limited time: minor scales? blues scales? modes? obscure scales? I can practice keyboard, but i couldn't manage a guitar.


Edit: Sorry Meffy/moderator. I realise now that i should have put this onto the other thread. Perhaps you will attach it to the other thread, and amend with new title?

Edit: I don't know whether the solution is to practice with my left side. I am (was) biased to my right side. I noticed that i struggle to do left side except A minor. My intuition is that using 2 hands i may find the melodys.

[Spring Goose]

I have a second question about modes:
What are these "dorain b5", "mixolydian b2", "lydian augmented #2", "super-locrian diminshed", and do the usual rules about I, IV, and V apply?

[jancivil]

as to the second question, no scale with a flat 5 in place of a P5 is going to be suited by functional harmony principles; look at it. If we have D E F G Ab B C there is no dominant V harmony at all. You could vamp on I - IV and the IV contains the usual character tone ^6 of Dorian but... Dorian itself has a minor v anyway, so no look contains a tonal dominant.

Modes and dominant-tonic functional paradigm don’t mix well to begin with as, eg., G7 (or B dim, de facto) in eg., D Dorian gives you dominant V7 of C major. So, the basically useful Dm to G, w. G7 turns into ii-V7 of C major, if one is not careful; and careful means you know to establish the ‘i’ for certain.

So it never really applies; we may approach harmonic minor as modal, and the application of dominant-tonic doesn’t have to ruin it, but once you get into modes of that it’s out the window, and say G7 to Cm is always going to be present for C harm. minor; cf., the problem cited per Dorian... you may analyze the others to verify.

Modal practice and functional harmony are just about mutually exclusive. The kind of exotic synthetic scales cited are even less compatible.

[jancivil]

the notion of finding melody in the sort of vacuum of never having experienced melody in actual music, playing and/or singing is not likely to pan out. You could learn extant music via singing the tune...

[anomandaris1]

I have a second question about modes:
What are these "dorain b5", "mixolydian b2", "lydian augmented #2", "super-locrian diminshed", and do the usual rules about I, IV, and V apply?

"Rules" of functional harmony were developed by H. Riemann after improving older ideas. One of his books is translated in English and is in public domain, so search for it. Maybe some of the Schenker/Schoenberg's stuff is also online for free.
There are problems with both of these harmonic schools of thought, but the whole story deserves a book on its own, so don't expect a forum post to explain it all. Basically, you can't create a real theory, based on the structure of just one scale (in this case- diatonic one). Around 20 % of the major/minor chords and possible chord progressions in romantic era can't be even explained by traditional systems and we need chromatic/geometric theories of voice leading to deal with them (Like this one - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Riemannian_theory).
About "exotic modes" - You can think of any heptatonic scale in 12 equal as alteration of white keys modes' pattern. This type of scales in systems that don't support meantone can be thought as alteration of some other regular temperament (and you won't get 2-5-1 and similar progressions without dealing with enharmonics in non-meantone tuning).

[jancivil]

literally none of that post is useful to the issue

The “theory” of functional harmony is not a great mystery here. You aren’t going to get dominant-tonic function out of scales with a flat five in the basic construction, you won’t with flat two in it, and both are there for a reason. Period. For that matter, Dorian hasn’t a V; Phrygian hasn’t; Lydian, sorry, V7 is ^7 and its 4 is #4; Mixolydian, no; Aeolian, Locrian, nope.
All 100% unworkable, mutually exclusive to functional harmony. In reality, the paradigm exists along with and at the end of the day inextricable from the major/minor paradigm.


About "exotic modes" - You can think of any heptatonic scale in 12 equal as alteration of white keys modes' pattern.


dorian b5: C D Eb F Gb A Bb... one should see the augmented second there and recognize there is no heptatonic scale on the white keys having it.
mixolydian b2: C Db E F G A Bb.
lydian augmented #2: C D# E F# G A B.
super locrian looks like: C Db Eb Fb Gb Ab Bb. I guess if the goalpost is all tones or semitones, ok.

Fourth mode of Harmonic minor: F G Ab B C D Eb... etc.

EDIT: If the meaning was supposed to be that all heptatonic scales are constructed by mixture of tone/semitone, already harmonic minor has an interval of 1 1/2 tones. I’ll create one at once that doesn’t work that way; idk, C Db E F# G Ab B. 2 aug 2nds and three consecutive semitones.

- then we see this bizarre supposition that “meantone” amounts to some significance as to function of harmony, & “enharmonics” somehow figure. EDIT: no, fck the cute emoji, that’s both incompetent & so pretentious it’s just amazing.

BTFW: Hugo Riemann was born in 1849, where the principles of tonal function had been quite well established already. One could remain entirely ignorant of his existence and have the entirety of functional harmony through to Schoenberg deconstruction of, non-essential.

[jancivil]

I have a second question about modes:
What are these "dorain b5", "mixolydian b2", "lydian augmented #2", "super-locrian diminshed", and do the usual rules about I, IV, and V apply?

“Rules" of functional harmony were developed by H. Riemann after improving older ideas.

Maybe some of the Schenker/Schoenberg's stuff is also online for free.
There are problems with both of these harmonic schools of thought, ...

but the whole story deserves a book on its own, so don't expect a forum post to explain it all.

No one has asked for anything of the sort. It’s really off-topic.

[Forgotten]

I've read that modes are only occasionally used, and most commercial music use simply the regular Major and Minor scales. Is that true?

I'll explain why i am asking: it's because i think that i can't find the melodys i want using the regular minor scales. The melodys usually sound like a lullaby or something from a film soundtrack, which isn't what i want.

Perhaps you're adhering too strictly to those scales. There's no reason why you can't select notes outside of those scales or alter them in some way. If you're using a Western harmonic approach, there's a framework for you to work in, but you can stretch it and bend it if that gives you what you're looking for.

[Spring Goose]

Thanks people!

@ Forgotten: I know what happened. People have been encouraging me to be more ambitious, and that resulted a lower success rate, which left me feeling a bit out of sorts. & then questions appeared in my mind so i put the questions on here.

Then a while later i had a cd of some of my songs on in the background and then it suddenly struck me TWICE "these melodys in this song are a minor key and it sounds neither like a lullaby nor like a film soundtrack", so now i've bounced back to approximately normal.