issue about Diva's FM which popped out while doing comparisons with monark
in monark:
oscillator 3 set to SQUARE set to 8'octave volume 0
oscillator 1 set to SAW set to 2'octave volume 100%
set with the modulation wheel FM to full
in diva 1.1.1(corresponding settings):
oscillator 1 SQUARE set to 8'octave Volume 0
oscillator 2 SAW set to 2' octave volume 100%
set FM to...hm .no matter the amount it will never match and will have some sort of ghost lower tone to it. i think maybe aliasing issue?
Improvements!
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- KVRian
- 867 posts since 26 Jul, 2009
just an update on this:
issues regarding FM affect pretty much all waveform types (just tried a saw modulated by a saw) and even filter FM.
i understand Diva offers 2 octaves of FM...but better half octave done right than 2 octave done wrong.
maybe the 2 octave FM can be left for the jupiter8 module...and a more precise restricted FM for the moog module.
FM is a great feature needs to be spot on imo to really enjoy it.
most differences pointed out in monark vs diva threads are just absolute nonsense and hype....but the FM is miles part.
issues regarding FM affect pretty much all waveform types (just tried a saw modulated by a saw) and even filter FM.
i understand Diva offers 2 octaves of FM...but better half octave done right than 2 octave done wrong.
maybe the 2 octave FM can be left for the jupiter8 module...and a more precise restricted FM for the moog module.
FM is a great feature needs to be spot on imo to really enjoy it.
most differences pointed out in monark vs diva threads are just absolute nonsense and hype....but the FM is miles part.
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- KVRian
- 500 posts since 27 Nov, 2003 from Oslo, Norway
A small wish for Diva: an option for the LFOs to go a few octaves higher!
Last edited by Sleepwalker on Sun May 05, 2013 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- u-he
- Topic Starter
- 30222 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
Hmmm... can you send us an mp3 to support at u-he dot com? - We don't have Monark yet, but we can verify on our Mini.olikana wrote:issue about Diva's FM which popped out while doing comparisons with monark
in monark:
oscillator 3 set to SQUARE set to 8'octave volume 0
oscillator 1 set to SAW set to 2'octave volume 100%
set with the modulation wheel FM to full
in diva 1.1.1(corresponding settings):
oscillator 1 SQUARE set to 8'octave Volume 0
oscillator 2 SAW set to 2' octave volume 100%
set FM to...hm .no matter the amount it will never match and will have some sort of ghost lower tone to it. i think maybe aliasing issue?
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- KVRAF
- 4197 posts since 23 May, 2004 from Bad Vilbel, Germany
Remember that you have several "slop" controls in the Trimmers page which affect pitch and waveforms. Before expecting consistent FM between consecutive voices and/or across the keyboard, you will need to turn Voice Tune, Drift and PW Slop down to minimum and select "osc reset" Transient Mode.olikana wrote:in diva 1.1.1(corresponding settings):
oscillator 1 SQUARE set to 8'octave Volume 0
oscillator 2 SAW set to 2' octave volume 100%
set FM to...hm .no matter the amount it will never match and will have some sort of ghost lower tone to it.
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- KVRist
- 412 posts since 17 Mar, 2005 from Cumbria, England
Talking about FM in DIVA...
It would be great if one could chose between VCO1 or VCO2 for the filter FM source. VCO2, in my opinion, is much better than VCO1 because you can sync VCO2 and use that as the FM source. And you can apply mild filter FM with a detuned VCO2 to add growl to a single VCO patch. Using VCO1 as the FM source means that you have to use a detuned VCO2 as the main tone source which means the whole synth has to be detuned to bring it back into tune (or have to use the individual VCO tune trimmers).
Tony
It would be great if one could chose between VCO1 or VCO2 for the filter FM source. VCO2, in my opinion, is much better than VCO1 because you can sync VCO2 and use that as the FM source. And you can apply mild filter FM with a detuned VCO2 to add growl to a single VCO patch. Using VCO1 as the FM source means that you have to use a detuned VCO2 as the main tone source which means the whole synth has to be detuned to bring it back into tune (or have to use the individual VCO tune trimmers).
Tony
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- KVRian
- 777 posts since 13 Dec, 2011
Good point! I'll second your request.Synthbuilder wrote:Talking about FM in DIVA...
It would be great if one could chose between VCO1 or VCO2 for the filter FM source. VCO2, in my opinion, is much better than VCO1 because you can sync VCO2 and use that as the FM source. And you can apply mild filter FM with a detuned VCO2 to add growl to a single VCO patch. Using VCO1 as the FM source means that you have to use a detuned VCO2 as the main tone source which means the whole synth has to be detuned to bring it back into tune (or have to use the individual VCO tune trimmers).
Tony
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- KVRian
- 867 posts since 26 Jul, 2009
@Urs sorry my mistake was doing comparisons with open filter on both (this was before i realized in another thread the difference with filter brightness )
and considering diva fully open cutoff value corresponds to about 3/4 of monarks open value....it is only obvious i was hearing a darker tone in diva's FM
with cutoff compensated and a couple few minor other adjustments they sound pretty much identical .
first diva, then monark middle FM
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/503 ... monark.wav
first diva then monbark's full FM
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/503 ... onark2.wav
not even sure i'm even using the perfect corresponding value but it is close enough tone wise.
only obvious difference is monark jumps 1 semitone above when engaging FM (and yes i disabled pitch modulation in its back panel)....but i guess this an issue with monark and not something desirable at all (so 1 point in favour for diva there if anything).
here's the saws without FM so no idea what's caused monark to picthshift with FM
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/503 ... tooths.wav
anyhow sonically FM sounds basically the same in both
and diva has much wider FM range (2 octaves)
so safe to say that Diva's FM is actually better. so nothing to improve or change FM wise at all.
but Monarks FM can benefit from higher cutoff frequencies (so a bit brighter brighter "digital" like bells/metallic tones possible) so maybe rather another argument in favour of a brighter cutoff option.
Monark can also use noise as modulation source and mix between the two which makes for some cool sounds (feature from original minimoog which is nice imo).
and considering diva fully open cutoff value corresponds to about 3/4 of monarks open value....it is only obvious i was hearing a darker tone in diva's FM
with cutoff compensated and a couple few minor other adjustments they sound pretty much identical .
first diva, then monark middle FM
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/503 ... monark.wav
first diva then monbark's full FM
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/503 ... onark2.wav
not even sure i'm even using the perfect corresponding value but it is close enough tone wise.
only obvious difference is monark jumps 1 semitone above when engaging FM (and yes i disabled pitch modulation in its back panel)....but i guess this an issue with monark and not something desirable at all (so 1 point in favour for diva there if anything).
here's the saws without FM so no idea what's caused monark to picthshift with FM
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/503 ... tooths.wav
anyhow sonically FM sounds basically the same in both
and diva has much wider FM range (2 octaves)
so safe to say that Diva's FM is actually better.
so nothing to improve or change FM wise at all. but Monarks FM can benefit from higher cutoff frequencies (so a bit brighter brighter "digital" like bells/metallic tones possible) so maybe rather another argument in favour of a brighter cutoff option.
Monark can also use noise as modulation source and mix between the two which makes for some cool sounds (feature from original minimoog which is nice imo).
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- KVRist
- 165 posts since 18 Jan, 2012
Maybe you've missed a K.T. (key tracking)button on Monark's third OSColikana wrote: not even sure i'm even using the perfect corresponding value but it is close enough tone wise.
only obvious difference is monark jumps 1 semitone above when engaging FM (and yes i disabled pitch modulation in its back panel)....but i guess this an issue with monark and not something desirable at all (so 1 point in favour for diva there if anything).
here's the saws without FM so no idea what's caused monark to picthshift with FM
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/503 ... tooths.wav
anyhow sonically FM sounds basically the same in both
and diva has much wider FM range (2 octaves)
so safe to say that Diva's FM is actually better.
but Monarks FM can benefit from higher cutoff frequencies (so a bit brighter brighter "digital" like bells/metallic tones possible) so maybe rather another argument in favour of a brighter cutoff option.
Monark can also use noise as modulation source and mix between the two which makes for some cool sounds (feature from original minimoog which is nice imo).
Here is an examples first Monark, then Diva, both using Saw waves for FM. Monark's third OSC K.T. turned off
http://www.fileden.com/files/2012/2/9/3 ... DivaFM.mp3
Here K.T. engaged
http://www.fileden.com/files/2012/2/9/3 ... FM%204.mp3
Unless by saying "pitch modulation in its back panel" you mean a K.T.
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- KVRAF
- 2633 posts since 16 May, 2004 from Soviet Union
About my once case with the missing of favorite markers in ACE, it not happened again, fortunately. (this was in the main version v1.1, and I have not yet tried the betas.)
I hope this was some nuance of my actions, and the plugin here is not to blame.
With other problems or oddities I not encountered.
Well, some other thought that visited me, this may give values (or as it better on English) steepness of influence )) to timbre / "bass" & "treble" levels. Their impact seemed barely perceptible. However, I admit that users with better sound control may find that idea out of place (and a third-party EQ to my hands)), well, just a thought.
I hope this was some nuance of my actions, and the plugin here is not to blame.
With other problems or oddities I not encountered.
Well, some other thought that visited me, this may give values (or as it better on English) steepness of influence )) to timbre / "bass" & "treble" levels. Their impact seemed barely perceptible. However, I admit that users with better sound control may find that idea out of place (and a third-party EQ to my hands)), well, just a thought.
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- KVRer
- 2 posts since 3 May, 2013 from Oslo, Norway
Being able to use Diva's filters in Zebra has been a big pleasure. However, when playing polyphonically the i7 2,2 quad in my MacBook struggles. Multicore support would easily solve this problem, Diva runs totally smooth in divine mode on my setup. Is this something we will see in the near future, or something we have to wait for until Zebra 3 get's released?
Thank you for making extremely good sounding plug-ins that never seize to amaze me!
Thank you for making extremely good sounding plug-ins that never seize to amaze me!
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- u-he
- Topic Starter
- 30222 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
The ModMatrix in Zebra rules Multicore support out and vice versa.
We will be thinking about a new way to implement this some time in the coming months. And then maybe one day we'll see a multithreaded Zebra and a Modmatrix in Diva.
We will be thinking about a new way to implement this some time in the coming months. And then maybe one day we'll see a multithreaded Zebra and a Modmatrix in Diva.
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- KVRer
- 2 posts since 3 May, 2013 from Oslo, Norway
Ok. Now the future got even more exiting. Love how you are completely open about future releases. In that way we will never get disappointed. ZebraHZ in fast mode will serve my hybrid/wavetable-needs just fine while I wait.Urs wrote:The ModMatrix in Zebra rules Multicore support out and vice versa.
We will be thinking about a new way to implement this some time in the coming months. And then maybe one day we'll see a multithreaded Zebra and a Modmatrix in Diva.
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- u-he
- Topic Starter
- 30222 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
Hehehe, well, I often shot too fast in the past. Some premature announcements never saw the day of light. And of course, sometimes weeks became years.